[RaceBannon]

A great question. Many we know are in heaven because the Bible tells us they are, for example, Abraham, Enoch, Elija, and the thief on the cross next to Jesus.

Then how come no one ever says HAIL ELIJAH, HAIL THIEF ON THE CROSS, HAIL MOSES, HAIL ABRAHAM, HAIL ENOCH...at least the Bible says THEY are in Heaven, yet you never pray to/through them.

See it yet? You guys keep proving me right.

[wideawake]

Then how come no one ever says HAIL ELIJAH, HAIL THIEF ON THE CROSS, HAIL MOSES, HAIL ABRAHAM, HAIL ENOCH...at least the Bible says THEY are in Heaven, yet you never pray to/through them.

RB, you've wandered off.

All the prophets and patriarchs are commemorated in the Great Litany.

Moses and Elijah are specially commemorated in the Feast of the Transfiguration every year.

The Carmelite Order commemorates Elijah in every daily Mass.

And the Good Thief is commemorated every Good Friday.

[Campion]

Then how come no one ever says HAIL ELIJAH, HAIL THIEF ON THE CROSS, HAIL MOSES, HAIL ABRAHAM, HAIL ENOCH...at least the Bible says THEY are in Heaven, yet you never pray to/through them.

Nothing wrong with asking for the prayers of an Old Testament patriarch. There are plenty of Catholic prayers addressed to St. John the Baptist, who didn't die under the Christian dispensation.

But your argument is a funny one, Race: don't you believe that True Christians are infallibly saved? "Once saved always saved"? Then everyone who was a True Christian is in heaven. Surely you can name a few True Christians who have died, can't you? Is Spurgeon in heaven? Doesn't say so in the Bible, but didn't he die a True Christian?

What about you? You're going to die someday, as will we all. Nothing in the Bible mentions you by name.

[InterestedQuestioner]

"Then how come no one ever says HAIL ELIJAH, HAIL THIEF ON THE CROSS, HAIL MOSES, HAIL ABRAHAM, HAIL ENOCH."



Because we're praying from scripture:

"Hail Mary, Full of Grace
The Lord is with you
Blessed are you among women
and Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus."

Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace!" (NAB: "highly favored one") [kecharitomene]!The Lord is with you."

Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women"

And we're doing it in consistency with Scripture:

Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all generations will call me blessed."

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