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To: street_lawyer; conservonator; livius; Campion; netmilsmom; Tax-chick; camle; anniegetyourgun; ...
You wrote: " The major difference between Conservative Christian theology and Catholicism is the importance of Mary the mother of Jesus. According to Catholic dogma, Mary is a co-redemptrist, which seem to suggest that salvation through the Blood of Jesus is not sufficient. I would venture to say that it would be difficult to find a Catholic who even understands what I have just said."

Well, let me give it a try.

First of all, I always wish that both Catholics and non-Catholics would go to some authoritative source (such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church) before sounding off on "Catholic dogma." It would spare us a lot of useless huffing and puffing. And it's easy in this age of Google and Search Engines.

For instance, take a glance at what the Church actually teaches about Jesus and Redemption:

http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=Jesus+redemption&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

OK? Nothing there about Mary being Redeemer of the World. (Whew.)

The Catholic Church believes that Jesus Christ is the sole redeemer of the world. Jesus Christ is also the Head of His Body, the Church; and thus the Church is part of His redemptive work, and through her prayers, works, and sacraments, labors with Christ her Head to spread the full benefits of salvation to the whole human race. (That's why He founded the Church.)

Mary was the first disciple, and represents the Church in a unique way, since she was given the name "Full of Grace" (in Greek, Panagia) --- and as you know, when God names somebody (Abram --> Abraham; Jacob --> Israel; Simon --> Peter) He's telling you something important about them.

The important thing about Mary, as I said, is her perfect discipleship: that she heard the Word of God, and kept it. She was radically receptive to the Word; "with love beyond all telling" she kept the Word within her; nine months later, she gave birth to the Word made flesh.

This shows her extraordinary intimacy with God.

Now the amazing thing is, we are all called to participate in the salvation of the world, in this way: by intimate union with Christ. Or as St. Paul said, "I live: yet, not 'I', but Christ lives in me."

There is no Catholic doctrine of Mary with the title of "Co-Redemptrix." But there is this sense that when we are "in Christ," we are part of His work of salvation: as Christ says, "Take up your cross and follow me." In that sense, the Church, Christ's Body is a cooperator with redemption. And Mary is the most intimately united to Him of all; so she shares His work, just as we share His work when we are in Christ.

We're ALL called to be cooperators in spreading the full benefits of salvation to the very ends of the earth. The key thing is not that we're "adding" to Christ's sacrifice, but that we're united with it. We're a part of it, because we're a part of Him.

And that is more true of Mary than of any other human creature. She was (and is) so, so close to him in love and humility and obedience, body, mind, heart and soul. And that's what holiness is.

390 posted on 07/15/2005 2:50:48 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Inquiring minds.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I have talked to plenty of Catholics who say Mary is a co-redeemer and co-mediator.

If that is not in line with Church doctrine, you should get those people IN LINE with what the doctrine really is.

The RCC takes a lot of pride so to speak in having one authoritative doctrine, but that doesn't do much good if you don't enforce it.


392 posted on 07/15/2005 2:52:42 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The important thing about Mary, as I said, is her perfect discipleship

Some may take issue with this in the light of Mark 3:21, 31.

404 posted on 07/15/2005 2:58:53 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Beautifully stated.


440 posted on 07/15/2005 3:37:42 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I always wish that both Catholics and non-Catholics would go to some authoritative source (such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church) before sounding off on "Catholic dogma

Sounds reasonable to me. I was simply not aware that Catholic dogma was codified to this extent.

Church; and thus the Church is part of His redemptive work. If redemption means salvation then I can see why fundamentalist and Catholics do not agree on this point. But if redemption means something else then it should be explained as such. Allow me to reiterate my belief that salvation does not depend on what one's theology is, but to what extend the individual

Mary was the first disciple. Not to quibble about the definition of "disciple" but is there any historical evidence that Mary was ever referred to as a disciple of Christ? And what about Joseph? Was he not a disciple? Was he not there in the manger where Jesus was born? Why the emphasis on Mary to the exclusion of Joseph?

Actually Mary was not given the name "full of grace" she was said to be such. therefore I can not accept your analogy with Abram to Abraham etc. What is Mary's unique representation? What is your definition of Church? You may want to be guided by Vatican II on this?

Mary "heard the Word of God and kept it? Do you mean to say that she was sinless? Is that your point? I realize that you have a Catechism but if I my direct your attention to Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Where can I find an exception for Mary to that all encompassing statement?

intimate union with Christ. Or as St. Paul said, "I live: yet, not 'I', but Christ lives in me."  But He is also present in the Tabernacle? Why is that?

we are part of His work of salvation:  What must I do to be saved? Can I participate in someway in your salvation by doing something other than preach the gospel to you?  So by taking up my cross and following Jesus I am in some way adding to his finished work on the cross?

You seem to be using the term "salvation" in a much different meaning than is my understanding of the term. Perhaps unless we can agree on definition of words, we will not be able to communicate without first creating a common language.

 

 

607 posted on 07/16/2005 7:58:56 AM PDT by street_lawyer
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