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To: FatherofFive
Or do you really believe Christ wanted 20,000+ versions of “the Way?”

No, I don't. But it doesn't then follow that Christ, were he to come back today and look at the churches, would find the Way expressed most purely in the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not going to join what I believe to be a somewhat misguided church because it presumes to date itself to St. Peter.

Notice I said "somewhat misguided," not non-Christian. And that's a lot more credit that many Catholics on FreeRepublic give non-Catholics. I've been told straight out, on this forum, that I'm not a Christian. Why? Not because of what I believe or don't believe regarding the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but simply because I'm not Catholic.

1,302 posted on 08/01/2005 1:53:31 PM PDT by Glenmerle
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To: Glenmerle
But it doesn't then follow that Christ, were he to come back today and look at the churches, would find the Way…

Then something is seriously wrong.

First, let’s look at Matthew 16:16-19 “He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Now, here’s the interesting part. The word “Church” (singular) in Matthew 16 is from the Greek “ekklesia.” This word “ekklesia” occurs in the gospels only here and in Matthew 18:17 (twice).

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church (ekklesia). If he refuses to listen even to the church (ekklesia), then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

It is the same Church in Matthew 16 and 18. Here it refers not to the entire Church of Jesus, as in Matthew 16:18, but to the local congregation of the same Church, which Paul told to be “perfectly united in mind and thought.”

Clearly, the Church in Matthew 16 is the Church Christ said he will build. The Church of Matthew 16 is the same Church of Matthew 18. The Church in Matthew 16 would survive because “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

This Church has other characteristics. The Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” -- “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1 Tim 3:14-15. Note the singular - THE Church, the pillar of truth. This cannot refer to multiple churches teaching multiple versions of the Truth. The Church that teaches with authority - "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16)

So if, as you suggest, “it doesn't then follow that Christ, were he to come back today and look at the churches, would find the Way,” what happened? Did the Church that clearly existed in Matthew 18 not survive? Or is the Bible wrong?

1,303 posted on 08/01/2005 3:08:07 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
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