Wow, I am humbled by a most impressive response! I am glad that there are thoughtful Freepers who know more about religious history than I do.
You are obviously well aware that almost any religion can be perverted as such, and people should speak out when they see it happening. This is easy for us because the Muslim faith is a minority, and we are fortunate to have freedom of speech. Those in 1930s German weren't so lucky. It is hard to imagine, but that was our Christian faith on the stake less than a century ago. Even today, our country is divided amongst religious lines on some issues. Fortunately, there isn't much disagreement about the fate deserved by terrorists.
Yes, there are plenty of folks like your neighbor Araf who see the world through a strange lens (and indeed some worse), but there are plenty more good Muslims like my relatives who are normal folks just like you and I. We even celebrate Christmas together (though I'll admit to being generally clueless about their observances).
Debate like this is finally starting to force the Muslim community to address these issues, albeit too slowly for my taste. A look at today's leading articles on Al-Jazeera demonstrates that quite clearly. While my relatives are okay, maybe your neighbor is a fence-sitter. Talk to him. Ask him what good (in a secular sense) can come from the slaughter of innocent civilians. Then ask him about those portions of the Quran that you know so well. Ask him how he thinks the Muslim community and its representatives should respond. And tell him that he was smart to choose to live in the best country on earth!
I do apologize for my crafty wording regarding mosques and terrorists. Yes, that was indeed intentional, and you are of course correct about the correlation, but that does not show causality. Black people are disproportionatelly represented in the prison population, but that doesn't mean that every black person is predisposed towards criminal activity.
It is my hope that the majority here communicates to the Muslim community not only what we expect from them, but to understand that there is no gray area in the minds of real Americans when it comes to terrorists. There is only one acceptable option.
As I had indicated, I no longer am in contact with these people because I lost my job and had to relocate. As you
pointed out your relatives of the Muslim faith may be more
trustworthy, down to earth, and reliable people then some
folks you perhaps grew up with or now work with etc..
I shall withhold from making statements to try to prove a point, lets say where many Muslims are not aware of some of the verses that admonish them to go forth and conquere and subjugate the infidel. I realize often OT references to the Lord instructing his people to drive off and or kill some given ethnic group, say the Elomites, often is used as an execuse by some to indicate that there is little difference between what Islam and Hebrews did. But after a close study, one will see a vast difference, in why the Hebrew nation was instructed to rid their land from pagans verse subjugating them. We do not see the Lord's choosen people enslaving others. Quite the contrary. The acts where always issued in order to keep the Hebrew nation "clean" from foreign influence. Put another way. Do not intermingle with us, we serve the living God and do not want your rituals and believe system in our mist, for it will corrupt our people.
Diametrically opposed to this concept, Islam's commission is to subdue all, and convert them. All must obey Allah. And if they do not they are subject to death. And so integrated into the Arab mind is the fact that their cousins are their mortal enemies. There is no way out of this mess. And surely if you have made a terse study into Arab history you are aware of how they try to cover up their second rate status due to the expulsion of Abraham's first son Ismael from the tribe. Ishmael as promised would be the father of a great nation, and his seed starting with his son's
Ne-ba'joth, ke'dar, Ad'be-el, and Mib'sam branch out into the syrian highlands, and southern regions of now Jordan, southward into what is now Saudi Arabia. Then some time later after Sara passed on took his concubine wife Ketu'rah
and produced she had six sons, Zimran,Jok'shan,Me'dan, Mid'ian,Ish-bak, and Shu'ah. Where for instance the peoples in the tribe of Mid'ian migrated to the Gulf of Aqaba area then southward along the eastern coast of the Red Sea to those cities such as Al Madinah (Medina), Makkah(Mecca),Jiddah(Jedda), etc., downward to Aden at the Gulf of Aden. In short, the cousins moved outward and did not associate with the sons of Abraham (tribes of Israel) that came to be once Isaac's son Jacob produced his seed.
As best as can be imagined, the distant cousins we know refere to Arabs, from the very beginning held a grudge, because they where not accepted as the true seed of the Lord God's choosen people. They where the "rejects". So the seed of contempt where sown early on. And as one studies the exploits of the Arabs, Mahummad's raise to power etc., clearly this theme of rejection is the underlining driving force as to how their behavior patterns where exercised. I don't know how else to put it. Within this very sad situation, we see Mahummad and most likely close associates picking up knowledge from Hebrews and Christians who lived in the areas around his operational territory, as well as his early exploits northward towards Syria as his new found power base started their quest to conquere. He and others integrated theology from these two religions into his own with the many obviouse modifications. Ancient Hebraic fables such as how Adam and Eve observed how a raven buried it's mate by pushing earth/leaves over it, now can be read in the Koran as how Able was buried. Now to a Muslim this is the word of God. Yet nowhere in the OT book of Genesis does one find such a method of burial. It came from a fable. But to the belivers of Islam, they have been convinced that only the Qu'ran is the true book of God. In their zeal to accept that the book is actually holy, remember much of what you read in books on Islam, always bring out the concept where Islam rejects Icons, Idols etc., yet their rituals and every day actions show otherwise. Much of the Islamic world in it's ignorance are lead to believe no infidel can touch or read the Qu'ran before submitting to Allah and the words of his prophet, right? Think about that. As I said before, one is required to accept without having the oppurtunity to study what they are supposed to accept. Their holy book is an ICON to them, in many ways. Just look at all the fuss was made over the alleged abuse of it, at Gitmo. They kiss and hold images of past gone Caliphs, Immans etc., in high esteem. Yet at the same time it can be shown that many versions of the Qu'ran are routinely destroyed in Saudi Arabia if found to not be of a given versian the wahabist insist is the only real Qu'ran.
But enough of this. It leads nowhere in particular. I shall leave it at your discreation to become more familiar with what Islam represents, and it's altimate goals.
I would only add, that I for one am often leary of just hopping around the Internet to find sites that provide information on Islam. As is always the case, one can find sites that are just bashing Islam and provide in-accurate information. And I do realize it is so easy to obtain false pictures that at first appear to be somewhat true. Only through serious research methods can one perhaps arrive at a accurate understanding of how any religion operates. And in this I would be misleading if I pretended to fit into this category.
One thing though I am certain of. Until a large effort is made by the various branches of Islam to take a very honest look at what should be believed and what can be found to be in gross error, and then re-educated their constiuency, the problem is not going to go away. For the record, I have in the past year or so read some articles, sorry I cannot provide links, they where in passing, where some clerics in Egypt for one place, are starting to admit a carefull review of the many things written in the Qu'ran must be carefully scrutinized and if found worthless or distructive, then omitted from the Qu'ran. However, no matter how serious they might be in such an endeavor. It will have little effect unless they make all public domain. For again, many of the Islamic faith, like any other faith, are not in the position to apply a indepth study of their book. And there is so much written in say the Hadiths (the traditions), that attempt to explain much of what is written in the Qu'ran that also would have to come under carefull scrutiny, that these things may never bear fruit. For the record these very things quite a few hundred years ago, where attempted by some Islamic scholars but fell by the was side. It is hard enough for them to try to find common ground on basic believes, concerning who to follow in the context of where does the final authority exist. Much like we find say between the Roman Catholic Church and the various Protestant Churches. Same deal. But the essence of what I write simply opens the question as to why do Muslims think Islam is so pure, the final religion so to speak, when it can be found to be quite a mess in so many ways. I pretty much have a good idea of the answer. And I think the person I addressed the letter to, even has a better idea as to what Islam really represents. Jesus proclamied the good news, and commisioned his diciples to go forth and preach that all can be saved and please God by doing certain things. Nowhere in the OT/NT do we find the commission to go forth and conquer. The polar opposite is found in Islam. It demands it's subjects go forth and conquer then subjugate. We simply cannot get around these simply facts.
Have a pleasant day. Sorry for the verbosity.