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To: unlearner
The 10th clearly says that the US Constitution & Amendments prohibits states from making laws that abridge our rights to life, liberty or property in the 14th. -- Prohibitions are abridgments.

Obviously. The "some" powers are those reserved by the Constitution.

No, the power to infringe upon individual rights are clearly prohibited by the US Constitution --- States have no power to prohibit; this power is prohibited to them by the 14th. -- Get it?

No, because it is wrong. States cannot prohibit in a way that violates enumerated rights such as the right to bear arms. But states are limited by enumerated rights ---

Wrong again. Unenumerated rights are not to be denied. -- See the 9th.


487 posted on 07/08/2005 6:25:50 PM PDT by musanon
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To: musanon
"Unenumerated rights are not to be denied. -- See the 9th."

That's not what it says. It says rights exist that are not enumerated. The Constitution recognizes that other rights exist, and the bill of rights is not an exhaustive list. The federal government does not have authority to deny rights just because they are not included in the Bill of Rights.

Article [IX.]

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Your interpretation gives all government power to the federal government and none to states or local governments.

This is exactly the opposite of what early America was about. You are assuming that states must be delegated specific powers. Just like the rights not enumerated, there are powers not enumerated. If powers are not enumerated they belong to the individual States.

Article [X.]

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

If a power is not specifically reserved to the federal government AND is not specifically (as in bill of rights) prohibited to the States (plural), then these powers belong to the States (plural). An individual State does not need to have a power delegated in order for that power to exist. Individual States "reserve" or "delegate" these powers through a State Constitution.

Article 1, section 8 specifies the scope of federal government. It is very basic. All other powers belong to the State governments UNLESS specifically reserved or prohibited.

If the Constitution did not exist, and the federal government did not exist, States would continue to have legal and moral authority to govern their people. Being part of the Union limits their current power ONLY in specifically limited areas. Outside of these specific limitations States are only limited by natural law - e.g. the right of people to be governed by consent.

It seems to me that the real trouble here is your understanding of what a right or power is. Rights are intrinsic - i.e given by God - so that government does not grant these rights but simply recognizes them. However, this does not mean rights are not subject to forfeiture. This is where "powers" come in. A right to life, liberty or property can be taken by a government that has the legal power to do so. This extends beyond regulations designed to protect rights. It is about punishment.

If someone commits murder, for example, Texas can execute them. But local citizens cannot form a lynch mob because this power is reserved by the Constitution where there is a right to trial by jury. For the same reason, Texas cannot also decide to allow judges to take the place of a jury.
491 posted on 07/08/2005 9:59:43 PM PDT by unlearner
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