Posted on 06/23/2005 10:44:51 AM PDT by stlnative
Just perhaps: They both fell asleep on the beach. Joran woke up; Nat was gone. He figured she went to the hotel and he went home. Or she passed out, he could not wake her and he just left her there. I remember in college kids would pass out and be left...it was typical, and frightening to me, but common.
Either way, when he got home he told Daddy who was first angry because Joran sneaked out; and then...perhaps...went to get Nat at the beach. But she was gone. They might have all thought she just woke up and went back to the hotel. As so many other kids do at these resort places (we have all seen them do this, waking and staggering back in the morning).
Perhaps it was not until the reports about her disappearance that they thought "Oh, geeze, Joran was the last to see her. No one will believe he fell asleep and then woke and she was gone. Or, no one will believe he left her and we went to find her, but she was gone. So we need to have some story..." And that is how it all began. A web of lies, to cover up something that should just have been reported immediately, but seemed unimportant at the time.
Remember, we all are upset that the father would not let Joran talk. However, Joran said "Dad I want to help them find Natalee..." but the father insisted that he not talk. If she were dead, and Joran knew it...or if he knew she was taken by someone (arranged by Dad?) why would he want to help????
I still feel that these two teens (Nat and Joran) did what two teens often do. Natalee introduced herself, was a bit drunk, took her first taste of "walking on the wild side." Joran sneaked out of the house to meet her, had his fling, and was not going to think more about it. But neither knew how their actions would end up so tragically.
Three families are suffering and now destroyed from what might have started out very typically just an unwise choice by teenagers: Natalee's, (her mother appearing to be near the edge now) Joran's,(his mother looks like she is beyond being just distraught) and the Kalpoe brothers' family (the boys' mom also traumatized).
Whether Dad VDS did something more, once he knew, and went to find her on the beach is another issue. Maybe he did find her, woke her up and was trying to revive her or something and she freaked out. Who was this guy? She might have got hysterical and Dad VDS tried to subdue her and something bad happened then. Who knows?
However, I believe that originally Natalee did seek out Joran and introduce herself (as her friends attested to on TV), met him later at C and C's, and did go willingly in the car (otherwise she would have put up quite a fuss and her friends would have seen/heard). Initially they were just teens being a bit careless and foolish, disobeying their parents - but there was no harm intended and no crime committed by Joran or the brothers.
What happened after Joran and Natalee had time together might not be the fault of Joran and the brothers at all. That might be why they can't give any other information, the truth is that is all they know. They are not hardened criminals who know how to stand up to interrogation. They would have cracked by now if they had actually done something wrong. They made up the first story because they were afraid of being implicated, and that lie caused more suspician. They probably figured they would never be believed if Natalee's body had turned up somewhere and Joran was with her last on the beach. That is why the brothers were covering for Joran initially.
It is possible that Dad might have arranged something, for what reason is unknown, and just what is yet to be discovered. I just think there was no action or plan to harm/kindap/murder Natalee by the boys. JMHO
I know I had strong feelings otherwise in the beginning, but these kids all have many positive attributes and have never been in real trouble. Natalee and Joran are equally privileged. Nat from one of the wealthiest areas in the US, Joran the son of an island official. Both good students, preparing to go off to college with excellent records. I think this started out because of a few wrong choices being made and ended as a terrible tragedy.
My prayers are for Natalee and that justice is done, and the really guilty person/s are found...whoever that might be.
I heard that. I think AvdS said that Paul had to call J on his cell phone at school to tell him to button it up. Anita must have heard about what her son was saying when she was at school working.
You speak for us all.
Don't you think it's odd that none of Joran's classmates have talked publicly? If Joran is indeed a womanizing bully with an anger management problem & has bragged about slipping drugs to girls for sex, I'd think it would be awfully tempting for kids who know about him to start 'spilling some beans', especially now that daddy sloot is in jail! I hope the news hounds follow this trail....
OTOH, he really could be the sweet angelic boy his mother keeps describing (not), or somewhere in between.
Seems like a logical assumption to me...
Another good thing to do is to see the movie "Gettysburg" first. It will bring it really "alive" when you walk the battlefield. Lots of good little shops, places to eat, etc. Be prepared for narrow streets and traffic, however. It is a tiny town, but very alive with the history and feeling of Civil War times. Enjoy your trip!
THat never occurred to me,,that Dad could have been one of the two the witness saw. Creeps
You guys might want to visit bwcitypaper.com/. Scroll down to Publishers Notebook Naked Birmingham.
His classmates must have been warned not to talk by their parents. That's all I can think.
Even N's classmates have been very silent, except for the handful that have finally started to speak up.
Maybe Greta can track down some of J's pals at school and dig in a little. Somebody's got to talk if she goes after them.
It never occurred to me either, cg, but now it's making a lot of sense.
Thanks, that was a very insightful read. I'm sure the Holloway's & Twitty's will have an earful for everyone about their experience when this is finally over and they're on U.S. soil.
That's what I'm thinking too. Do you remember hearing about Joran having to take anger management classes? Palladin mentioned it in his post #425 and I'm wondering if it is a fact or a rumor.
I've always heard that it's frequently the types that appear quiet & meek that are the ones to watch out for (especially when their wives are out of town).
"Freddy" from most of JvdS's website photos would be the first guy they should talk to... looks like that guy is his drinking buddy.
She isn't all that pretty. There's just something cute about her. I didn't even know she HAD breasts until last night and that could be with the help of Wonder Bra (!).
Joran might be a little screwed up because his name is actually pronounced "urine" by his home dutchie folks. That would have made me a little angry, foreigners laughing at me because my name is "urine".
Anger management might not cure such a thing.
And I am not defending the little twit either.
That is not what I heard her say.
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