Posted on 06/18/2005 12:09:31 PM PDT by Loyalist
ditto
Read the genre epitomized by Norman Levitt and Paul Gross' 'Higher Superstition' or 'Flight from Science and Reason'. Personal anecdote may be a datum. Your IQ is showing, liberal. Which is to say, I heartily disagree.
Oh, and I'm +4 or +5 after many tests.
"I think a lot of this is cultural. If you're willing to work and study hard, you will probably become more accomplished than one who spends their time pursuing the "sex, drugs, & rock'n'roll" thing."
The problem is of course that culture is not an independent variable here. Let's face it - if you want to start up a culture of striving, academic excellence, etc. - you are much better off with an average population IQ of 115 rather than 85. This is especially so as the impact on the tails of the distribution are hugely disproportionate - 115 nets you a huge bonus in number of geniuses.
"Interesting that Taiwan, Hong Kong and China have basically the same people but different IQs."
A three point difference is just noise. Plus, these figures aren't anything to take to the bank - but they are the best ones avaialable, methinks.
"I have met dozens of Africans who have come here to live,work,or study.Without exception they are very literate and bright people."
Africans who travel to the US for work/study are not a random sample, by far - they are a self-selected group. Also, in order to make a totally decent living, you don't need genious-level IQ - this is a very important point.
Also, the ultra-low IQ:s of Africa are probably to a significant proportion environmental in nature. (I.e nutrition, sanitation, disease, etc)
"Same with the Asians where I work.Their conversations are no more intellectually substantive or creative than the other races on my job but they are always bragging about their"test scores"
Just a few points:
1) Asians do not excel at Verbal IQ - their strong suit is rather math and other forms of academic reasoning. In short, Asians are more nerdish - this is why they step by step have taken over US science departments at major universities.
A recent study showed that a large majority of Affirmative Action spots at universities are not taken from Whites, but from Asians.
2) Hard work (I.e, - putting off rewards) is positively correlated with IQ. That doesn't mean that there aren't smart slouches (there is an abundance!) - problem is there is an even larger abundance of dumb slouches.
"Anwer me this,Bon.It appears as if African nations are generally at the bottom of the IQ list.Why is it then that almost all the Africans who come HERE from those countries seem to excel academically,doing better than most black or white Americans?
My answer is that it has to be cultural,not racial.The dismal dog eat dog societies of their native countries don't allow them to shine intellectually.Over here they have some reason and opportunity to better themselves and thus live up to their potential.
I have met dozens of Africans who have come here to live,work,or study.Without exception they are very literate and bright people."
I have noticed that with some Nigerians in the engineering profession that I have worked with. Also some students when I was in college (NJIT) (they did NOT think highly of the victimology culture in the black community of Newark, NJ). Nigeria's "best and brightest" where IMHO driven out by the rampant corruption that passes for government there. And not only the engineers. If it were not for the thugocracy, Nigeria would be a rich country, due to both natural resources and its people.
I have also noticed that many of the Nigerian professionals I have met were Biafran, mostly Christian - and mostly old school Anglicans (not the John Shelby Spong or Rowan the Fuzzy types).
The Ibo (Biafrans) are one hell of a hard people - they have always been the brains of Nigeria. Problem is, the rest of local population outnumbers them drastically, and thus managed to squash the Ibo's striving for a separate state in a campaign of war and organized mass-starvation back in the 60-ies.
Hmmmm... immigrants often group together in immigrant communities where they are highly stressed and work extremely hard to assimilate and adapt to a new environment. This stress, hard work, and struggle for survival might have a huge impact on the kids who really push to succeed. Other kids in this immigrant community are swept up with it.
Remember the Hmong from Vietnam. Back home in Vietnam, they were not regarded as particularly bright... but once they moved to America, their kids performed brilliantly academically, outshining the native born Americans.
This story has been repeated time and again.
The Singapore Chinese outshine the indiginous Malaysians.
The Filipino Chinese are at the top of Filipino business (one of my Chinese friends said, "We are the Jews of Asia".)
The Hong Kong Chinese score better than mainlanders.
I've heard that we don't have to look overseas to see this... Silicon Valley kids and Los Alamos kids also score well on IQ tests... ok, maybe it's from smart parents, but many people are transferred into Silicon Valley and Los Alamos - it would be interesting to compare the native born kids with the imports from other states...
From my personal observation Chinese and Koreans are driven more. Since they are also much more numerous they will get most of the recognition from the Swedes (who dispense the Nobel price), soon!
I read the entire Murray-book THE BELL CURVE its been my experience that this topic is not something that is discussed at all in 'polite' company, in fact, discussion of this topic is discouraged.
"Your IQ is showing, liberal. Which is to say, I heartily disagree."
Apparently the lack of it is showing.
I do not understand what you mean by the above pair of sentences. Please explain.
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