Court rules that Holocaust survivors' lawsuit against the Vatican can proceed

Catholic News Agency ^ | Jun. 15, 2005

[Jane_N]

San Francisco, Jun. 15, 2005 (CNA) - A ruling this week by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld an earlier decision that Holocaust survivors can continue their claims against the Vatican for the restitution of funds plundered from former Yugoslavia during the Second World War.

The majority of the victims of genocide in Croatia during World War II were Orthodox Christian Serbs. More than 500,000 of them were liquidated by the Croatian Ustasha, with the backing of some Catholic clerics. These funds have been referred to as the Ustasha or Croatian treasury.

According to a report by Matt Abbott, the San Francisco court denied a Vatican petition for reconsideration and a request for an extraordinary en banc hearing. It also issued an amended opinion which indicated the Italian Peace Treaty of 1947 did not preclude the lawsuit because the Vatican was not a signatory to the treaty.

[Diocletian]

Croatia was the sole NAzi country with a concentration camp FOR CHILDREN, run by RC nuns

Another falsehood.

[wideawake]

Croatia was the sole NAzi country with a concentration camp FOR CHILDREN, run by RC nuns.

That is your most scurrilous lie yet.

What's your next allegation, Pope Pius XII ate a roasted Serbian grandmother every night for dinner, except during Lent?

[Diocletian]

You know, I thought people accusing Jews of eating Christian children was bad, but this guy.......

[dervish]

“You win for the day's most simplistic statement on FR. “

Simplicity is a virtue dishonesty is not.

(quotes from post #95 and #158)

Your statement contains many deceptions including the slipperiness of claiming that ---

“The only massacres of Jews that took place on Catholic soil prior to the 20th century were the Rhineland pogroms“ since you later claim that “This does not change the fact that the Vatican never authorized, encouraged or absolved anyone from attacks on the Jews.”

So is it that it never happened or the Vatican never authorized it? If the Clergy did it and the Vatican never stopped it when it was habitual, there is responsibility. That pretty much describes the Inquisition. Ferdinand and Isabella ruled under what doctrine? Who presided over heresy investigations?

Further expulsion or conversion was the choice given. Considering that expulsion was often synonymous with death, it is not much of a choice. In fact the definition of genocide today includes forced expulsion. How much more so in the 16th Century when travel was exponentially more dangerous? Further where were they supposed to go? If they left they were followed by more such decrees in the New World. As I recall Hitler offered Jews the same choice, leave.

This is not too honest either:

“the Inquisition had no authority over Jews. “ Yes, they got to face the choice of expulsion, pretty much compulsory conversion, which then subjected them to heresy charges.

More dishonesty here:

“The Jews in the Eastern Empire welcomed it at first”

Now why would they “welcome it at first” if things had been so super under the Catholics?

“The Jewish relics and manuscripts found in the Vatican archives and libraries (not the "catacombs" - I don't know where you got that from) come in large part from Catholic converts from Judaism and the Catholic Hebraists of the 15th century like Reuchlin and Ximenes who bought up hundreds of manuscripts and texts for study purposes. “

and -- “The Church did not despoil massacred Jews.”

Well having established that the Jewish “Catholic converts” were deprived of free will your premise of no confiscation pretty much falls apart.

“You're not going to find much treasure taken from "heretics" other than copies of books by heretics kept on file, and you'll find nothing belonging to witches either - probably because almost every single heretic or witch executed in the Middle Ages was executed by the local secular authority. “

Maybe you can explain this statement. My “simplistic” mind just can’t get around it. As far as I can tell you did not explain why there was no looted treasure.

“However, one can find all over Europe thousands of Catholic churches and Catholic artistic treasures stolen or reduced to rubble by various Protestant sects and now in the possession of those sects or of secular governments. “

When confronted with some truths, attack another religion, eh?

“For the reasons I explained above: he apologized to the victims of the Inquisition and he apologized to Jews for the crimes of all Christians against Jews. ‘

You explained nothing. You denied all. Pope John Paul II did not disseminate and try to hide behind words. He understood terrible wrongs had been committed by the Catholic clergy and in the name of the great religion of Catholicism and apologized. He understood that therein lay the message of salvation and the good of the Church. Catholic doctrine prohibits direct attribution to the entity of the Church. If you read his apology you might understand.

"With a penitential spirit and on the threshold of a new millennium, the church is willing to acknowledge past mistakes, when they are confirmed by serious investigation, and to ask pardon for the historical offenses of its sons”

[kosta50]

Good job DTA. BTW, when would the Pope have the time to do his work if he were to grant audiences to people simply because they are Catholic?! What a joke.

[DTA]

DTA: Croatia was the sole NAzi country with a concentration camp FOR CHILDREN, run by RC nuns.

WIDEAVAKE: That is your most scurrilous lie yet.

For some people, Auschwitz, Treblinka and Belsen are also scurilous lies. Decent people call such creeps "Holocaust deniers", "Holocaust diminishers" and "Nazi revisionists."

You deny that NAZI JASTREBARSKO CONCENTRATION CAMP run by RC NUNS existed and accuse me of "scurrilous lie" .1018 children died there. How I should call you?

Take a good look:

Children imprisoned in the Jastrebarsko concentration camp pose outside one of the buildings with nuns and members of the Ustasa.

Date: Jun 1942 - Aug 1942 Locale: Jastrebarsko, [Croatia; Zagreb] Yugoslavia Credit: Copyright: Agency Agreement (No Fees)

Subject Classification: LABOR CAMPS/MINOR CAMPS -- Yugoslavia -- Jastrebarsko

Want more?

A nun leads a civilian on an inspection of a children's barracks in the Jastrebrsko concentration camp. [Photograph #46545]

Document 12 of 100

Yugoslav infants lie in a row on a stretcher in the Jastrebarsko concentration camp. [Photograph #46585]

A group of barefoot, emaciated children stand outside in a row at the Jastrebarsko concentration camp. [Photograph #46613]

Two emaciated children sit outside on a bench in the Jastrebarsko concentration camp. [Photograph #46597]

Croatian officials and Ustasa militia view a group of children in the care of nuns at the Jastrebarsko concentration camp. [Photograph #46612]

Date: Jun 1942 - Aug 1942 Locale: Jastrebarsko, [Croatia; Zagreb] Yugoslavia Credit: Copyright: Agency Agreement (No Fees)

Subject Classification: LABOR CAMPS/MINOR CAMPS -- Yugoslavia -- Jastrebarsko

The source of the photos:UNITED STATES HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM

The key issue here is CHURCH CANON LAW. According to the Canon law, RC nuns can not work outside of Church without THE TACIT CHURCH APPROVAL. Vatican allowed RC Nuns to run concentration camp where 1018 CHILDREN DIED of gentle nun 'care' and "christian brotherly love" IN TWO MONTHS (from June to August 1942)

You attempt to obfuscate the issue - CROATIAN NAZI Crimes and the role of VATICAN in them.

Recent pedophile cases are petty misdemeanor compared to the involvement in the crimes in WWII Croatia.

Wideawake, You can not erase the facts for all the tea in China.

Perhaps it will help to pray for the sin you have commited by calling me a liar in an attempt to cover up the crime.

[SJackson]

I'm just trying to understand this whole situation. How exactly is the Church financially responsible to pay the victims of these horrible crimes?

The lawsuit contends the Vatican Bank and the Franciscian Order of both looting and laundering confiscated assets during the war, thus the financial liability if true.

[SJackson]

You'll find a lot of references at the plantiff's attorney's site under news, links, and press. Obviously they have an agenda, but you can assess the articles based on source, and you'll know what the charges are. Whether they're true or not is another matter.

[DTA]

DTA : Croatia was the sole NAzi country with a concentration camp FOR CHILDREN, run by RC nuns

DIOCLETIAN: Another falsehood.

No, this is another Croatian Nazi apologist being debunked.

Croatian officials and Ustasa militia view a group of children in the care of nuns at the Jastrebarsko concentration camp. [Photograph #46612]

Date: Jun 1942 - Aug 1942 Locale: Jastrebarsko, [Croatia; Zagreb]

Source: USHMM 1018 Serb children died and were murdered while under care of RC nuns in Jastrebarsko concentration camp in only two months. According to Canon law, Nuns can not work outside of The RC Church without Church approval. This example alone shows Vatican complicity in NAZI crimes.

Diocletian, your time on FR is up. You have just been exposed as HOLOCAUST DENIER.

[rmlew]

Izetbegovic was not a member of the Waffen SS Skanderbeg. The Skanderbeg was an Albanian unit named after an Albanian Christian hero, Skanderbeg.
I confused the 2 Hanjar Battallions with the Skanderbeg Division. Both were SS. Izetbegovic was a recruiter for the Hanjar battallions.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1004191/posts

Tudjman fought against the Ustashe as part of the Partisans.
He just downplayed the atrocities of the Wartime regime, when he became PResident.

[kosta50]

And they accuse Serbs of denial....hmmmm.

[Diocletian]

Documentation please.

[Diocletian]

Kosta, you are smart enough to be able to decipher truth from communist propaganda. Please do so.

[Diocletian]

This is a fair comment. Thanks for the level head.

[a freedom-loving italian]

Whoopty-doo. So you've traded your Catholic heritage for filthy lucre.

If that Catholic heritage of ours means that the Pope is the King of the "Papal States" and He is going to do anything in order to retain his TEMPORAL power and in doing so He is going to fight and hamper the Italian secular republic then I don't care much about that...heritage.

But if you're talking about such things as "Love thy neighbor as thyself" or "give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" then I cherish that heritage.

But in the end my point is that I admire the US Republic which is based on a strictly SECULAR constitution which guarantees every US citizens the right of freedom of religion and also freedom from temporal power of one particular Church. Finally, I think that for the Roman Catholic Church to have a state at all is NOT good for the Church itself, as RCC should be focused on the spiritual life of the people and not on temporal issues like gov't of a state.

Meanwhile, Italians can't be bothered to have children anymore and have embraced the worst aspects of secular hedonism. All the while being invaded by Islamics who have no interest in your secular society at all. I reference what's happening in Holland--that's going to be Italy 20-30 years down the road, pal.

These are all very dramatic problems and I don't have easy solutions. And you're right pointing at a lack of faith as the main cause of all this mess. What I can say for sure is that Italians have a long tradition at being mere CINOs (Catholics in the name only) and Catholic Faith is much more alive in foreign countries. But why is that? Perhaps the fact that we used to have to deal with a very powerful Pope-King has something to do about it...

Cheers

[kosta50]

Do you know one country that's not in denial?

[Diocletian]

Kosta: many of the accusations levelled against the Church on this thread are baseless. There is no need for anyone to lie.

[a freedom-loving italian]

Not good enough. Please retract your statement.

Ok, since I am not an historian and I am not very well informed on this issue I RETRACT my statement.

My whole point is that I would not be very surprised at knowing that the Vatican is bent on doing the interests of the RCC and in doing so is bent on fighting the rival Christian Churches.

That's only common sense, pal. But again, I retract my statement as I don't have enough proof.

[a freedom-loving italian]

Many thanx to everybody, these posts on FR are always very informative.

Keep up the good job!

[GipperGal]

If that Catholic heritage of ours means that the Pope is the King of the "Papal States" and He is going to do anything in order to retain his TEMPORAL power and in doing so He is going to fight and hamper the Italian secular republic then I don't care much about that...heritage.

Are you referring to recent history?