Posted on 06/15/2005 12:27:19 PM PDT by veronica
(1st Add: Includes comments from George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney.)
(CNSNews.com) - Terri Schiavo's body did not show any signs of trauma or other criminal activity that would explain her brain injury, nor was there evidence to support previous diagnoses of a heart attack or an eating disorder, the Florida medical examiner who conducted her autopsy said Wednesday. A representative of Terri's family complimented the report, but said it still leaves many questions unanswered.
"She died of dehydration," Dr. Jon Thogmartin, the Florida medical examiner for Pinellas and Pasco counties said, noting that the official cause of death would be listed as "complications of anoxic encephalopathy."
"That's the only diagnosis that I know for sure, is that her brain went without oxygen," he added. "Why? That is undetermined."
George Felos - attorney for Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo - said the report confirms what he has argued all along.
"The courts have found that there was no abuse of Terri, no evidence of abuse, and that's what the medical examiner found," Felos said.
Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.
"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."
Terri was "heavy" as a teenager, according to Thogmartin, and had lost more than 100 pounds after graduation. The eating disorder diagnosis was based on that fact and a low potassium level measured during a blood test about an hour after Terri was first hospitalized.
"Her low potassium level appears to be the main piece of evidence purporting to show that she had an eating disorder," Thogmartin said. But he noted that she received numerous medical treatments when she arrived at the hospital that would have lowered that measurement.
"Thus the main piece of evidence supporting the diagnosis of bulimia nervosa is suspect," he concluded.
"Once you eliminate the potassium problem, which is known in bulimics, you end up with a 26-year-old who used to be healthy, who now lost the weight, is reveling in her thinness now, enjoying her life and doesn't want to gain the weight back," Thogmartin said. "If that's a bulimic, there's a lot of bulimics out there. It's just not enough."
Thogmartin said that because he cannot, "with reasonable medical certainty," ascertain why or how the blood and oxygen to Terri's brain were interrupted, he cannot rule on what started the chain of events that led to her death.
"The manner of death is different from the cause of death. Manner of death is the circumstances of death or how the death came about," Thogmartin said. "Since I don't know the circumstances or can't tell, actually, what the underlying cause is, the manner of death has to be 'undetermined.'"
Other allegations and theories addressed
Thogmartin dismissed the theory that the oxygen depravation to Terri's brain might have been the result of a myocardial infarction, the medical term for a "heart attack," or death of heart muscle from coronary artery disease.
"Mrs. Schiavo's heart was anatomically normal without any areas of recent or remote infarction," he explained.
In response to the allegations that Terri's collapse was the result of a physical assault, Thogmartin noted that she received nearly 30 X-rays, CAT scans and ultrasound examinations during the medical examination that followed her collapse.
"Any fractures - including rib fractures, leg fractures, ankle fractures, skull fractures, spine fractures - that occurred concurrent with her initial collapse would almost certainly have been diagnosed in 1990, especially with the number of physical exams, radiographs and other evaluations she received during her initial hospitalization," Thogmartin said. "No fractures or trauma were reported or recorded."
There was also, Thogmartin said, "no evidence to support or the evidence did not support," various allegations that Terri was abused or neglected after her initial brain injury.
Was Terri in a Persistent Vegetative State?
Thogmartin brought in Dr. Stephen Nelson, an expert in pathology of the brain and central nervous system, as a consultant during the autopsy. Nelson stressed numerous times that the diagnosis of a "Persistent Vegetative State," which was used to justify the removal of the feeding tube that kept Terri alive, "is a clinical diagnosis, it's not a pathologic diagnosis that has precision associated with it." But he did not dispute the finding.
"There is nothing in her autopsy report, in her autopsy that is inconsistent with Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson said, adding that there was evidence to support the finding.
"A normal brain weight for somebody who is approximately 41 years of age ought to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,200 to 1,300 grams," Nelson explained. "Her brain is 615 grams and is largely reduced to what is termed granular atrophy ... associated with the loss of blood flow that happened many years prior.
"Those all are consistent with what is reported in the literature for Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson added. "We found nothing that is contrary to what has previously been reported for Persistent Vegetative State."
Nelson compared the physical condition of Terri's brain to that of Karen Ann Quinlan, the New Jersey woman who died in 1985 -- nine years after her parents won a court battle to remove her from a respirator.
"Her brain, Karen Ann Quinlan's, weighed more than Terri Schiavo's brain weighed," Nelson said. "The findings here are, perhaps, worse, even, than Karen Ann Quinlan."
Thogmartin also concluded that Terri's brain injury was irreversible.
"Her brain was profoundly atrophied," the medical examiner concluded. "This damage was irreversible and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."
Michael Schiavo relied on the diagnosis of a Persistent Vegetative State when he sought permission from the Florida courts to remove Terri's feeding tube. He and two of his relatives testified that Terri had said she would not want to be kept alive in such a condition. Thogmartin discussed the contention by many right-to-life advocates that Terri's family should have been allowed to offer her food and water by mouth after that feeding tube was removed.
"She would not have been able to consume sustenance safely or in sufficient quantity by mouth," Thogmartin said. "Mrs. Schiavo was dependent, therefore, on nutrition and hydration by her feeding tube and removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed by mouth or not."
In layman's terms
After a technical explanation of his findings, laden with medical language, Thogmartin was asked to summarize his findings in an exchange with one unidentified reporter:
REPORTER: "In layman's terms, did Terri Schiavo starve to death?"
THOGMARTIN: "No."
REPORTER: "Did she suffer any neglect or abuse?"
THOGMARTIN: "No."
REPORTER: "Will we ever know what caused her death?"
THOGMARTIN: "I don't know."
Pamela Hennessy, spokeswoman for the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation and Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, complimented Thogmartin on his report.
"However, it does seem that the conclusions of his report leave as many unanswered questions as there were previously," Hennessy said. "For instance, if Terri did not suffer bulimia and she had as healthy a heart as Dr. Thogmartin proclaimed, what caused her collapse?
"It doesn't really bring much in the way of closure to [the Schindlers] as far as what happened to their daughter, why this happened in the first place and what could have been done for her," Hennessy concluded.
Thogmartin said he is open to answering those questions.
"It is the policy of this office that no case is ever closed, and that all determinations are to be reconsidered upon receipt of credible new information," he explained.
"In addition to fading memories, the 15-year survival of Mrs. Schiavo after her collapse resulted in the creation of a voluminous number of documents, many of which were lost or discarded over those years," he continued. "Receipt of additional credible information that clarifies any outstanding issues may, or shall cause an amendment to her cause and manner of death."
Michael Schiavo wasn't "claiming" she did, hon. There was *no need* for him to.
A few people in the media, ignorant of terminology, used the term Heart Attack, and her parents' Dr hammesfahr and other of their spokesmen jumped on it - used it as a straw man - "oooh... we discovered she didn't have a Heart Attack, like we were told, now we don't know why she collapsed".
Hammesfahr and her siblings were saying that, even in March. It was so dishonest, it was the first hint to me that these people had no integrity, regardless of what we think of MS.
Cardiac arrest is written on her chart for any fool to see who cares about the facts as much as do the conspiracies.
Off to the movies.
Proof?
When was Thogmartin corrupt? He is highly respected as a Medical Examiner.
The "outside expert" that the Schindlers wanted in the room was Cyril Wecht, a notorious grandstander and media hog, who is, as we speak, being investigated by the federal government.
What the heck was Terri doing if not eyeing the balloon as it crossed in front of her?
Good question...
REPORTER: "Will we ever know what caused her death?"
THOGMARTIN: "I don't know."
Yet we all witnessed this woman die due to dehydration.
CAUSE OF DEATH: Michael Schiavo
"The doc wanted to take out the electrodes when it was obviously not helping. Michael refused to let him do it. "
Please cite your source on that. Thank you. : )
"The woman died as a result of having a feeding tube removed. Unless "Undetermined" is defined as "starvation/dehydration as a result of removal of a feeding tube," I'd have to agree that Orwellian fits the description of this report."
Page 35 of the autopsy report reads:
By what mechanism did Theresa Schiavo die"
Postmortem findings,... show that she died of maked dehydration....brought about by lack of hydration.
Did you bother to read it? Doesn't appear so.
Tune me in - I saw the Bone scan report on the Internet. You say that was all bogus? And these new 247 x-rays say that there were no broken bones or sign of trauma? Good grief. This is getting sicker by the moment. You would think that Michael would have allowed release of the medical information to vindicate himself long ago. He wouldn't let her parents have access to any information. It wasn't until legal discovery in 2000 (I think) that Schindler's lawyer got a hold of some medical records including the bone scan. I am confused.
"Granted the Schiavo case stinks, but it's over.
It's over? Not by a long shot. The managed care/ long term care insurance companies need to speed up the dying process a la Schiavo or they will go bankrupt."
It would seem that Doctors, hospitals would have a $$$ incentive to keep them alive? Which "greedy" bunch will win?
No so...... The Schlindlers had the info on the bone scan and all the rest of the records all the time. Was proven in court long ago. Michael didn't withold them.
If anything, this autposy report would appear to be a total vindication of Judge Greer.
Hi Sinkspur, how are you today?
None of that matters. What matters is that the precedent for corruption and incompetence exists in Pinellas County right there in the ME's office (and elsewhere, of course). His predecessor, Dr. Joan Wood, was forced out of office for changing her report on the case of a Scientology member whom I believe was dehydrated to death (I'm working from memory here so maybe someone else might have the full case in front of them.) So the simple fact that an autopsy report was issued is totally meaningless. If this ME wanted to really stop the hypotheses, he would have allowed an independent observer in the room, ESPECIALLY if it was someone the Schindlers chose. Otherwise, what this guy says is no more credible than what Dr. Wood might have said in a similar case. I have no reason to believe this ME. He might be wrong on this case, he might be under pressure, maybe he has a particular bias - I don't know. But I DO KNOW that these autopsy results won't change anyone's mind and they might have if an someone else had been allowed to participate in viewing the autopsy, which is a pretty common occurrance anyway. To refuse to do this actually IS rather odd in and of itself.
autposy = autopsy
Pg 31 of the autopsy..."Did she have a "heart attack"?
NO...but elsewhere in the report is the documentation of the cardiac arrest (for the 8,274 time LOL).
pg 32 of the autopsy...bone scan info. The trauma implying doc messed up. And BTW, they did do a complete scan at autopsy.
Report in full here:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/autopsyreport.pdf
"Wouldn't an MRI have told the tale of the condition of her brain?"
Yep, but there would not have been much left after the MRI machine interacted with the experimental implant that was put in years ago.
You apparently have a problem with Southerners..Florida or otherwise. Go back in your hole "newbie"..and put your tin foil hat back on.
As I said the Schiavo case stinks and is very sad..but it's now over.
There were xrays as they are listed here, under exhibits, with the scan.
Bone Scan dated 3/5/91 and X-Ray Report dated 2/5/91
What was never done was a bone density.
and an edited deposition by one of the radiologists.
The FULL deposition is at the link.
Re: Wouldn't surprise me to learn that ole Mikey was going out on Terri, playing a Scott Peterson act, before Terri "collapsed"."
** Is there a connection? Just read the following:
Did Michael and Jodi meet before Terri's 1990 collapse?
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:jXoeRfrqcrQJ:www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover041405.htm+michael+schiavo+jody+met+terri+&hl=en
by Judi McLeod, Editor,
Thursday, April 14, 2005
It seems that the romantic first meeting place of Florida’s most famous common-law couple was at the local dentist’s office. Michael Schiavo and Jodi Centonze may have met before the fateful night of February 25, 1990 when Terri Schiavo collapsed under mysterious circumstances...
After sustaining neck and shoulder injuries in the 1988 auto accidents, (Jodi)Centonze is alleged to have had as many as 19 cavities in a year, and was seeing a dentist on a regular basis. It was in the dentist’s reception area that she reportedly met Michael Schiavo, allegedly some time before February, 1990.
Terri Schindler Schiavo had worked for Prudential Insurance Co. in Pennsylvania and continued with the company in Florida when she moved there with husband, Michael. Terri was employed by Prudential at the time of her collapse.
For the rest of the story, go on the link to find out!
OK, so maybe even MS recognized Terri had no HA.
Frankly, I don't care. I don't have any evidence that MS was so bad, but there was scant evidence Terri wanted to die & so on, either, which is the bottom line. Judge should have used *judgement* and erred on the caution and let the parents care for her.
You badmouth them all you want, but clearly Terri's parents and real family wanted to take care of her. And there's nothing wrong w/that.
You have a very odd mindset.
In the Michael Jackson case, you have asserted that the jury should have convicted him regardless of the evidence because he admitted to sleeping with children.
In the Schiavo case, you toss aside the results of this autopsy because some other ME was guilty of malfeasance, therefore this ME's painstaking work cannot be trusted. In fact, you advocate allowing an ME who is under federal investigation for crimes himself to be the "outside observer."
Very illogical.
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