Posted on 06/15/2005 12:27:19 PM PDT by veronica
(1st Add: Includes comments from George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney.)
(CNSNews.com) - Terri Schiavo's body did not show any signs of trauma or other criminal activity that would explain her brain injury, nor was there evidence to support previous diagnoses of a heart attack or an eating disorder, the Florida medical examiner who conducted her autopsy said Wednesday. A representative of Terri's family complimented the report, but said it still leaves many questions unanswered.
"She died of dehydration," Dr. Jon Thogmartin, the Florida medical examiner for Pinellas and Pasco counties said, noting that the official cause of death would be listed as "complications of anoxic encephalopathy."
"That's the only diagnosis that I know for sure, is that her brain went without oxygen," he added. "Why? That is undetermined."
George Felos - attorney for Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo - said the report confirms what he has argued all along.
"The courts have found that there was no abuse of Terri, no evidence of abuse, and that's what the medical examiner found," Felos said.
Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.
"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."
Terri was "heavy" as a teenager, according to Thogmartin, and had lost more than 100 pounds after graduation. The eating disorder diagnosis was based on that fact and a low potassium level measured during a blood test about an hour after Terri was first hospitalized.
"Her low potassium level appears to be the main piece of evidence purporting to show that she had an eating disorder," Thogmartin said. But he noted that she received numerous medical treatments when she arrived at the hospital that would have lowered that measurement.
"Thus the main piece of evidence supporting the diagnosis of bulimia nervosa is suspect," he concluded.
"Once you eliminate the potassium problem, which is known in bulimics, you end up with a 26-year-old who used to be healthy, who now lost the weight, is reveling in her thinness now, enjoying her life and doesn't want to gain the weight back," Thogmartin said. "If that's a bulimic, there's a lot of bulimics out there. It's just not enough."
Thogmartin said that because he cannot, "with reasonable medical certainty," ascertain why or how the blood and oxygen to Terri's brain were interrupted, he cannot rule on what started the chain of events that led to her death.
"The manner of death is different from the cause of death. Manner of death is the circumstances of death or how the death came about," Thogmartin said. "Since I don't know the circumstances or can't tell, actually, what the underlying cause is, the manner of death has to be 'undetermined.'"
Other allegations and theories addressed
Thogmartin dismissed the theory that the oxygen depravation to Terri's brain might have been the result of a myocardial infarction, the medical term for a "heart attack," or death of heart muscle from coronary artery disease.
"Mrs. Schiavo's heart was anatomically normal without any areas of recent or remote infarction," he explained.
In response to the allegations that Terri's collapse was the result of a physical assault, Thogmartin noted that she received nearly 30 X-rays, CAT scans and ultrasound examinations during the medical examination that followed her collapse.
"Any fractures - including rib fractures, leg fractures, ankle fractures, skull fractures, spine fractures - that occurred concurrent with her initial collapse would almost certainly have been diagnosed in 1990, especially with the number of physical exams, radiographs and other evaluations she received during her initial hospitalization," Thogmartin said. "No fractures or trauma were reported or recorded."
There was also, Thogmartin said, "no evidence to support or the evidence did not support," various allegations that Terri was abused or neglected after her initial brain injury.
Was Terri in a Persistent Vegetative State?
Thogmartin brought in Dr. Stephen Nelson, an expert in pathology of the brain and central nervous system, as a consultant during the autopsy. Nelson stressed numerous times that the diagnosis of a "Persistent Vegetative State," which was used to justify the removal of the feeding tube that kept Terri alive, "is a clinical diagnosis, it's not a pathologic diagnosis that has precision associated with it." But he did not dispute the finding.
"There is nothing in her autopsy report, in her autopsy that is inconsistent with Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson said, adding that there was evidence to support the finding.
"A normal brain weight for somebody who is approximately 41 years of age ought to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,200 to 1,300 grams," Nelson explained. "Her brain is 615 grams and is largely reduced to what is termed granular atrophy ... associated with the loss of blood flow that happened many years prior.
"Those all are consistent with what is reported in the literature for Persistent Vegetative State," Nelson added. "We found nothing that is contrary to what has previously been reported for Persistent Vegetative State."
Nelson compared the physical condition of Terri's brain to that of Karen Ann Quinlan, the New Jersey woman who died in 1985 -- nine years after her parents won a court battle to remove her from a respirator.
"Her brain, Karen Ann Quinlan's, weighed more than Terri Schiavo's brain weighed," Nelson said. "The findings here are, perhaps, worse, even, than Karen Ann Quinlan."
Thogmartin also concluded that Terri's brain injury was irreversible.
"Her brain was profoundly atrophied," the medical examiner concluded. "This damage was irreversible and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."
Michael Schiavo relied on the diagnosis of a Persistent Vegetative State when he sought permission from the Florida courts to remove Terri's feeding tube. He and two of his relatives testified that Terri had said she would not want to be kept alive in such a condition. Thogmartin discussed the contention by many right-to-life advocates that Terri's family should have been allowed to offer her food and water by mouth after that feeding tube was removed.
"She would not have been able to consume sustenance safely or in sufficient quantity by mouth," Thogmartin said. "Mrs. Schiavo was dependent, therefore, on nutrition and hydration by her feeding tube and removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed by mouth or not."
In layman's terms
After a technical explanation of his findings, laden with medical language, Thogmartin was asked to summarize his findings in an exchange with one unidentified reporter:
REPORTER: "In layman's terms, did Terri Schiavo starve to death?"
THOGMARTIN: "No."
REPORTER: "Did she suffer any neglect or abuse?"
THOGMARTIN: "No."
REPORTER: "Will we ever know what caused her death?"
THOGMARTIN: "I don't know."
Pamela Hennessy, spokeswoman for the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation and Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, complimented Thogmartin on his report.
"However, it does seem that the conclusions of his report leave as many unanswered questions as there were previously," Hennessy said. "For instance, if Terri did not suffer bulimia and she had as healthy a heart as Dr. Thogmartin proclaimed, what caused her collapse?
"It doesn't really bring much in the way of closure to [the Schindlers] as far as what happened to their daughter, why this happened in the first place and what could have been done for her," Hennessy concluded.
Thogmartin said he is open to answering those questions.
"It is the policy of this office that no case is ever closed, and that all determinations are to be reconsidered upon receipt of credible new information," he explained.
"In addition to fading memories, the 15-year survival of Mrs. Schiavo after her collapse resulted in the creation of a voluminous number of documents, many of which were lost or discarded over those years," he continued. "Receipt of additional credible information that clarifies any outstanding issues may, or shall cause an amendment to her cause and manner of death."
Maybe, just maybe, that's because the autopsy isn't where the issues of disagreement are. If that's so, why the need to discredit it?
I have no desire to follow that, at this time. I will say that I did follow some trash talk at the time while Terri was still living, that still bothers me.
Clearly, the lack of evidence only suggests the breadth and depth of the conspiracy...
I guess I don't really understand what you're saying. If you tell me that you have had a negative experience with someone in a position of authority am I supposedly to automatically DISBELIEVE you because you're talking about some anonymous authority figure? I would simply accept whatever point you're making. The point that I was making was not to gossip about anyone, as obviously I haven't mentioned any names, but to make the point that a CV does not tell you a lot of things about a person and should not be used to stop debate about that person.
I assume you're saying you don't believe me, which is fine. I don't care - it has nothing to do with the point I was making anyway.
For the last time, you are lying. And everybody knows you are lying.
There is no such thing as a "private" lawsuit against a public official. Your "private knowledge" is simply rumor-mongering.
Heheheh... good point! :o)
If I'm understanding you correctly, you agree that people should not be insulting this man and impuning his integrity since they really do not have any facts to back it up. Right?
The point you were making is to always be wary and distrusting of "authority figures".
btw, "authority figure" is an odd way to describe a Medical Examiner.
Again, I never made reference to Dr Hammesfahr, only to Dr. Walker's report of his findings of the bone scan, my posts were strictly in reference to Dr. Walker NOT Dr. Hammesfahr.
BB grabbed my boob once in an elevator.
~rimshot~ Good night... ;~D
Oh, I'm getting it now......I'll *try* to remember that part!
As RS said up the thread, "there is NO evidence, therefore we MUST investigate !"
Actually, I'm not surprised. It's just interesting that the report brought out some different posters than the usual group. Although I'm sure they're around.
That is correct. I don't think it's appropriate to post rumors about him without having some kind of evidence to share openly with others. I don't know anything about Thogmartin one way or another. On the other hand, I know from my own personal experience that a CV can't be used as the sole source of information about a person as it can be very misleading if you want to know what someone is really like.
Ah, but you mentioned a name and I did not - did I? My remarks were about 4 anonymous professors I worked for, none of them noted by name or nicknames. So this is not a reasonable analogy.
I was using YOU as the example. DUH. Do you like being slandered?
"btw, "authority figure" is an odd way to describe a Medical Examiner." Gosh, that doesn't compute; a medical examiner with a curriculum vita like Throg's is presented as just that, an authority figure on autopsy material/processing. It's done in courts all over the land. I'm what Howlin would call a Terribot and I don't see anything worth arguing over in the ME's report, so far.
Why are you looking I've told you that you won't find anything the records are sealed and there is a confidentiality clause. If you looking for something that I've advised you will not find, it would appear that you are not comprehending what I'm posting. You will not find the smoking gun if it has been melted down.
I know what you mean; I was pretty upset when a poster told me I could just drag my sister out to the garage and use carbon monoxide on her because it was quicker.
I know the poster had no way of knowing that's how my son died, but it showed a lot of us what people were willing to say to push their agenda.
And I'm still a little ticked off about continually being called a murderer and a Nazi and part of the "culture of death," too, so I know exactly where you're coming from.
I don't think of Doctors as "authority FIGURES". Authorities on their subjects; yes.
I don't understand what you think I'd be scared of nor am I interested in scrolling back. I think it was you, but I could be mistaken, who posted Thogmartin's CV as an asnwer to the rumors that one poster was bruiting about. Now, my position would be that that poster should NOT be bruiting those rumors about - certainly with nothing to share openly to back them up with. No sites, files, etc. However, just posting a CV and saying something along the lines of "look what a great guy you're maligning" is not satisfactory either as the CV leaves out a lot of critical information as well. It doesn't tell you what someone is like - only what they've done. It's useful for information, not as an answer to quesions about character.
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