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Congratulations Michael, now please, get help
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | June 14, 2005

Posted on 06/14/2005 7:32:32 AM PDT by Asphalt

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To: blueblazes

the jury instructions most likely laid out exactly what the elements were for each count and they had to decide if those elements were met, by the evidence presented, not their opinion of michael jackson etc.. i didn't follow the case so closely as to know what the evidence was on each count. as far as sleeping with little boys, i don't know where that would fit in under the counts for which he as charged. someone asked why he wasn't charged with porn stuff, i have no idea. but the jurors cannot find him guilty of a crime for which he was not charged. those things were within the purview of the prosecution. they bear a fair amount of blame for this outcome, bc of their inartful charging of him. the prosecutors job is to consider what the evidence is on each count, prior to bringing the charges. if the evidence was weak, with regard to a particular charge, he should have left it out.


421 posted on 06/14/2005 1:06:15 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: blueblazes

Well..I think there has to be some reform -- not to toss the juries, but to improve the system.


422 posted on 06/14/2005 1:06:25 PM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: blueblazes
If you cannot convict the world's most open and obvious pedophile, Michael Jackson, how can you convict ANY pedophile

if the victim here and his family didn't have all of the stuff that they were impeached with, likely MJ would have been convicted. yes, just bc he came from a lying, thieving family, it doesn't mean that he should have been abused and his abuser should not be permitted to walk, but the lying and thieving did cast sufficient doubt so as permit of an acquittal

423 posted on 06/14/2005 1:08:46 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: fatnotlazy

Oh please, toss this jury :)

I think the defense has too many challenges so they can really model a jury almost up to spec. They want to see certain types on there (or not on there). For example, I've heard that if you don't want to be picked for jury duty, wear glasses. If you seem intelligent, the defense will probably challenge you. Maybe we need to consider what "jury of peers" means as well as what "reasonable doubt" means. I pray that this Jackson jury does not represent average America.


424 posted on 06/14/2005 1:09:08 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: SweetPrincess

i also understand that the prosecution did not use all of the preemptory challenges that they were allowed, so they ARE responsible in part for the makeup of that jury.


425 posted on 06/14/2005 1:10:10 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: SweetPrincess
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if MJ had bribed a child with a bunny, instead of a Rolex, he would have been convicted.

Can you imagine a defense saying the family just wanted more bunnies, therefore MJ is not guilty?
426 posted on 06/14/2005 1:10:52 PM PDT by roses of sharon (,)
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To: xsmommy

That's true, undoubtedly, but the problem is that these are the kinds of families that pedophiles pick their victims from. It's like of like organized crime cases. You don't find nuns testifying in organized crime cases. You find one set of criminals testifying against another. They're unsavory people. Does that mean that everything they're saying is either true or a lie? No - but a jury has to have the intelligence and sense of discretion and discernment to make a determination which is which. You can have unsavory witnesses who actually ARE telling the truth - juries have to be taught to understand that.


427 posted on 06/14/2005 1:11:17 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: Howlin
You're not wrong about that. Even the juror's interviews, say they do believe mj is a molesterer and has done so in the past.

Yet, they had to give him a pass on this one.

go figure....I can't. I've tried.

428 posted on 06/14/2005 1:12:12 PM PDT by the Deejay
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To: xsmommy

The prosecution did not do a good job with this case, that is for certain. Hopefully they will all learn from it. In the meantime, Jackson will probably help the Tsunami efforts in Thailand, or maybe help some of those starving children in Africa. So many needy kids, so little time.


429 posted on 06/14/2005 1:12:52 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: blueblazes

unfortunately with the jury system, you have to hope that people will come in with their common sense, and you can only weed out the obvious conflicted/nutty ones. again with the charging, supposedly if they had not charged him with the conspiracy charge the mother would not have been on the stand. maybe that would have made the difference, if her tainted weirdness wasn't in the mix. then they would have only had to contend with the kid himself changing his testimony. i am just saying that as much as the jury is as fault, the prosecution bears at least that much responsibility and more.


430 posted on 06/14/2005 1:15:53 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: the Deejay

i know it is hard to understand and even more difficult to stomach, but if there was not evidence sufficient to prove that he did THIS CRIME, they were PRECLUDED FROM finding him guilty. the jury instructions lay it out clearly for them as to what has to be proved. now once i heard the jury verdict, i was so disgusted, i will not watch them, so i can't opine as to whether they were legit in their consideration of the case.


431 posted on 06/14/2005 1:18:31 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: blueblazes

i am a lawyer, i desperately wanted him found guilty, bc i am sure he is, but i can't fault a jury for their verdict if the evidence was just not there.


432 posted on 06/14/2005 1:19:23 PM PDT by xsmommy
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Comment #433 Removed by Moderator

To: xsmommy

Yes, the prosecution made things unnecessarily complicated and I think the over-rated the jury. THey probably thought, this is so OBVIOUS that MJ is a pedophile, how can any jury be stupid enough or morally lax enough to give him a pass? Well, goes to show you can't underestimate some folks.

Despite that, I think there was more than enough evidence there to convict Jackson of at least the minor charges. The jury just didn't want to "believe" it. There's no such thing as ultimate proof or evidence, like Moses coming down from the mountain with tablets - there's just what the jury chooses to believe. The majority choose - I believe from Day One - to believe he was innocent. The ones who KNOW he is a molester (as several jury members have admitted this) were spineless cowards who gave in to the majority. Since the burden of conviction rests on the jury, I have to give the jury more grief here. They let a pedophile go free. That's wrong, and I can't get around that. He's going to go molest more children. They could have stopped it. So...the jury has the lion's share of the blame.


434 posted on 06/14/2005 1:19:53 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: blueblazes
You think it's a good idea for mj to ever be seen w/ kids, again? Needy or not?

This was mentioned on tv today, & there was a resounding, "NOOOO."

435 posted on 06/14/2005 1:20:57 PM PDT by the Deejay
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To: blueblazes

knowing he is a pedophile, if there is insufficient proof that he commmited THIS CRIME, does not give them the right to convict him. i am with you emotionally, i wanted him convicted, but legally, it is JUST NOT POSSIBLE without sufficient evidence.


436 posted on 06/14/2005 1:22:01 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: the Deejay

Well, it's a sickness. The man is majorly mentally ill. He can't help himself. He'll be with kids again, but probably overseas. I don't think even he has the cajones to do it again in America, but even if he did, who would stop him? I don't think they'd bring another trial - if anything he might become more brazen now. I don't think it will be fear of the authorities that will drive him abroad, but fear of publicity as these roaches like to operate in the dark. And, I hate to say it, but others have, he's been growing his own victims in the meantime so he may never have to leave the house again.


437 posted on 06/14/2005 1:23:01 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: xsmommy
I have been listening to what they have to say as to how they reached their verdicts.

I keep shaking my head in amazement each time they contradict the verdicts.

Not seen a more discombobulated, if not confused, jury in over 200 trials I've watched over the years.

438 posted on 06/14/2005 1:26:09 PM PDT by the Deejay
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To: xsmommy

Personally, I think the evidence--as much as can be had in a molestation case as opposed to a rape case--was there. I think the jury was just predisposed to letting him walk.


439 posted on 06/14/2005 1:26:23 PM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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To: the Deejay

Near as I can tell, they chose to ignore what evidence there was simply because they didn't like the mother, they didn't like how she dressed, and they were ticked off that she snapped her fingers at them.

But at least they "bonded."


440 posted on 06/14/2005 1:27:48 PM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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