Posted on 06/10/2005 11:13:37 AM PDT by Always Right
I have noticed a tremendous shift among family and friends to the flat price, all you can rent option.
I wasn't be dishonest, but you are right, a 23% reduction would do it, so I stand corrected. But still I only see 8% of hard savings and a potential for 2-4% more. That means:
100 reduced by 10% is 90
90 increased by 30% is 117
So maybe a 17% increase in prices is where we will be at, which isn't that far out of the about 20% I said.
"So in the end, the drug dealer has more money in his pocket to spend under both systems. Taxes are avoided under both system."
At least until the drug dealer spends it. Those watches and gold chains, under a National Sales Tax, would be taxable; he may evade taxes on the drugs he sells, but, absent some grand luxury-retailer conspiracy, has to pay tax on what he buys with his ill-gotten gains.
Lets assume for simplicity that yes, the out the door price on a widget would go up 17%. Now, by what % is your take home pay going to increase?
7. Underground Economy still not taxed. The NRST advocates falsely claim that the underground economy now will be taxed. Nothing could be further then the truth. Sure, when the money re-enters the legal economy the money is taxed, but that is true today. But will the drug dealers and prostitutes remit sales tax for their goods and services under the NRST? Absolutely not, this portion of the economy is still invisible to the tax collector and therefore not taxed. According to Bruce Bartlett, 'thus whatever revenue is gained when drug dealers spend their ill-gotten gains will be lost because no tax was collected on their drug sales.' (Bruce R. Bartlett, senior fellow, National Center for Policy, Analysis, November 5, 1997).
The above is total and complete idiocy. The assumption is that because it "misses" the first taxation, something has been lost, and that it happens today because hookers, drug dealers do it. Yeah, sure they don't pay INCOME tax now and only pay SALES tax when they spend, but what happens when the NRST changes the rate? I'll tell you, it got missed the first go'round because it's illegal, but we got it on the second go'round because, my friend, it ain't at the same rate. And, if you think quoting Mr. Bruce Barlett substantiates your claim, well, he's an idiot too if he can't figure that out!
I didn't waste time reading any further, this one was enough to know the bread's not baked....
With that supply-demand curve, he should be raising his prices 20% *now*, since he'll only suffer a 10% loss in sales. The NRST does not cause microeconomic theory to stop working.
It depends who they are spinning the arguement for.
Huh?
You are saying that folks will look at their invoice - but won't look at their paystub? What kind of half-assed excuse is that?
Follow the money. The people who will make out HUGE are the billionaires and their useless heirs. I am not impressed. And I will call anyone who peddles this scam as a way to reduce the tax burden of the average working family a baldfaced liar.
His holding up William Gale of the Brookings Institute as an authoritative source is far more bothersome.
BS. How do you figure the drug dealer won't pay sales tax? Doesn't he have to eat? Doesn't he have to buy cars, appliances, etc? The doctor doesn't have to pay sales tax on the money he earns, only on the money he spends so your figures here are faulty. Anyone who thinks an income tax is better than a sales tax has their head square up their butts. Flat tax is not good, it would soon turn back into a sliding income tax. Sales tax with complete elimination of 16th amendment and a new amendment outlawing income taxes at the federal level is the only way to go.
The reason sales taxes would have to be high to match the income tax is because our wonderful government spends so much. When people confront the real amount they have to pay every year they will scream and holler and maybe we can finally reign in runaway spending.
Goring-the-ox-that-gores-the-hen-that-lays-your-golden-eggs ping.
He he - the feds have gotten over on you! After-tax dollars are already being hit when spent to the tune of 20-25% of each dollar spent going to federal taxes and related tax costs.
The nrst won't change that.
I do find it interesting that you didn't seem to be aware of this though.
What makes you think the sales tax won't do exactly the same thing.
For one thing, there are many cities on the American/Mexican border. Alot of towns on the Mexican border already subsist by catering to American money (think Tijuana). Now, given this, and given the fact that in Mexico, everything is cheaper by default, the question soon comes.
If someone lives in say, El Paso, and they're saddled with the 23 percent national sales tax, and for the sake of argument (because I dont know what it actually is), Texas adds 6 percent.
So 29% sales tax. Now, let's say their is an item you want, and the exact identical item is sold in Ciudad Juarez. Same quality, same everything. And (this part is odd because Mexico is cheaper, but sake of argument) supposed, both items are valued at $100.
And let's suppose Mexico doesn't have a sales tax (once again, I don't go frequently enough to know if they do or not)
So, in both Ciudad Juarez and El Paso, you have the $100 item.
In El Paso, this item will cost $129 because of the sales tax, and in Ciudad Juarez, the item will cost $100.
Now tell me something, what do you think an El Pasoite would do in this situation. Stay in the good ole US of A and pay an extra $29, or, go shopping in Ciudad Juarez and get a great bargain.
Here is a little test for you. Go ask some people what their check was this week. 99 out of 100 will tell you their NET pay because withholding has so conditioned people they don't even know what they actually make!
And further, ask them how much they paid in taxes on April 15th. A very large portion will respond, "I got money back!"
If withholding was ended and people had to actually file quarterly and write a check for what they owe, tax increases on income would be far more difficult.
The reason that tax increases (all kinds) are easy is because virtually no one knows what they pay in taxes. If there was an NRST every person would know exactly how much the tax was increased the first time they bought something under the new higher rate.
The people who will make out HUGE are the billionaires and their useless heirs. I am not impressed.
Going to the liberal class warfare handbood is even less impressive.
You don't need to consult an expert on this, all you need do is read what's been stated in argument against the NRST. I don't particularly give a damn about whether it's NRST or Flat Tax, I only want to quit subsidizing lower income people.
I make a lot of money and I discovered a few years back that the more I made, the incremental amount of money that went into my pocket decreased each time my pay went up. It decreased to the point that I was lucky enough (read valuable enough to my employer) to drop down to 60%time (love those Mondays and Fridays off!). I found that I can take a 40% cut in work time and only lose about 25% of what I'd been taking home working at 100%. To me, that's a 15% cut in taxes. Screw'em all, at least until those damn CPAs at the IRS figure out how to diddle me out of "time off."
#5 was one of my points the last time we discussed this.
I think #8 is why people like you like it so much and people like me don't.
FC: And low-income people can decline to file their 1040EZ tax return and forfeit their EITC....and their freedom.
It's against the law not to file a tax return. It is completely ok and legal to refuse to receive the prebate.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.