Discussion thread for FR poll question regarding calling up the militia to defend the borders

Free Republic Poll Question ^ | June 3, 2005 | By YOUGOTIT

[brazzaville]

Good morning.

bert, it looks to me like Chavez wants to replace the existing elite with a new, communist elite. We've seen how well that works, in places like Rhodesia, Cuba, and my all time favorite, Cambodia.

Factor in the apparent paranoia that seems to drive Chavez and his romancing of Castro and you have a recipe for disaster.

It's not good to have a Mugabe/Pol Pot clone in control of so much oil in our hemisphere at the same time that Mexico is being a threat.

Michael Frazier

[bert]

......it looks to me like Chavez wants to replace the existing elite with a new, communist elite......

The interesting thing about that comment is Brazil. When Lula de Silva was elected there was a clamor here about communism and death and destruction but it hasn't happened. He hasn't been invited to Crawford, but he hasn't collectivized the farms either. As far as I know he hasn't nationalized anything either.

I know, I know, we don't know he won't impose a Castro like Regime in Venezuela. I also don't know what he is doing except by looking through my small window into Venezuela, he is playing by at least some of the established rules. He imposed import controls and the flow of capital out of the country. This is a blow to the Aristos in that they can't live it up in Miami while the peons are starving..... that is until the money abroad runs out. It probably won't stop practice but might crimp their style and get their attention.

In my opinion, as goes Brazil, so goes the continent. We hear the frogs croaking about greatness, while Brazil could easily outpace and outmode them. We should be doing everything in our power to see the middle Class in Brazil is strengthened.

[Gritty]

The results of your poll was an overwhelming "Yes".

I wager the results would be similar if the poll was taken from scores of millions people from all over this country. Most people I talk to about this are seething and have had enough but don't know what to do about it.

We're getting royally shafted by our politicians and bureaucrats. But this disconnected rumbling from all over will eventually get organized (viz, Minutemen) and become an unstoppable groundswell. Then and only then will our craven political class in both Parties start fearing for their jobs (and maybe more) and hasten to get on board to ride the crest of the wave to yet another election - claiming all the while they were really "for it".

Although I voted "Yes", I don't think we need to call up the General Militia, but as a general principle it is fine. The dirty little secret is, we have enough Active/Guard/Reserve troops available today to do a very nice job of pretty much sealing our borders once our political "servants" find their spines - or somehow rent or otherwise acquire working model of same.

[ConsentofGoverned]

"There are workers available at the full employment rate of let's say 5%. But those in the 5% area are unsuitable and substandard.That means the employer must hire substandard workers. Typically this means they are druggies or don't like to come to work everyday or have children that prevent orderly attendance."

Bert; don't presume to know why you have such a fear of free markets being self correcting - I will try to make it clear:

1. a product or service if needed will be provided
2. a product (such as trees) is not needed it is a luxury item..I for one would not care if these and other items are lost to American market (think of wagon wheels for your horse drawn buggy) if we can STOP THE ILLEGAL INVASION.
3. much of your post are becoming banal..you seem to have no problem with illegals destroying our quality of life for the so called benefit of lower cost x mas trees. sad
4. please review the economic power of USA and the ability of our businessmen to provide products to the economy..we are the best at it in the world.
5. STOP the small minded thinking about a few businesses not doing well because of use (what is in effect slave labor) to product items not needed by us but are best described as luxury items.
6. Most Americans agree we can do without the benefits of slave labor to SAVE THE COUNTRY

[bert]

You have made some good points and several extremely bad ones.

Carried to an extreme, by your arguments there would be no jobs in America because production will always be less expensive else where.


The example of Christmas trees is metaphorical for many many labor intensive jobs and services. Slavery being drug into the mix and is a total absurdatity.The whole migrant phenomena is the result of market forces and the resultant pressure on the job market. The market not only accepts but welcomes them with open arms.

You have interjected theory into a situation past the point where a theoretical solution is relevant. A pragmatic solution is required for the problem that allows the workers to work at jobs where there are no Americans to do them in an orderly and legal manner.

In addition to the scarcity of workers to perform many jobs, there is in fact no militia to do close off the borders. The force required to do the job can not be summoned from the existing National guard forces because it does not exist in afoprm that will permit the action.

My defense of migrants is not made because I think open borders is a good policy. My thoughts are pragmatic realism recognizing what I percieve as reality. The intense pressure from poverty to wealth devided by a line in space will not be solved by trying to shut down the border. The pressure is too great and there will always be major leakage.

[ConsentofGoverned]

bert your lack of faith in America and it's people is your main error..

Your fear of loss of "slave labor" is abhorrent..I feel I am talking to a plantation owner of the 17th century who
justifies the horror of slavery because "who else would do it"

We do not need many NG or militia ( I for one would volunteer to spend a month on our border with Gov support and backing) the minutemen proved that. It is more than possible to close our borders much of the technology that would be employed would eventually leave us with border control workers at very near our current levels. The jobs created by just making our borders secure would be a boon to those border states.

YOu will not agree and you also seem to lack any ability to think outside the current system..for you any change to protect our borders is impossible. MY QUESTION TO YOU:
have you left government service yet AS YOU HAVE A BREAUOCRAT'S MINDSET