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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
The problem with modern Libertarianism is that they totally miss the interrelationship between truths and even freedoms. For example, we can only be as socially free as we are fiscally free.

Odd 'line', is this some sort of communitarian position?

These things must be balanced, where the chooser pays all of his own consequences. Otherwise social freedom for some results in fiscal slavery for others, not to mention social hardship.

Libertarians are supposed to oppose fiscal freedom? Weird.

Interestingly, the founders were far more focused on financial and religious freedom than they were on sexual license and other such social issues (drugs anyone?). A person was entitled to the fruits of their own labor and to worship as they choose. These were their big liberty issues. I think they would be appalled at what our self-indulgent culture has come to think of liberty. We seem perfectly willing to turn over large portions of our money -- or at least feel good about the so-called "rich" turning over large portions of their money -- as long as we are free to be as immoral as we want to be. Our perception of liberty is fundamentally different than that of our Nation's founders, it seems to me.

Speak for yourself. I see no such difference.

The first thing we should do if we really want to restore the Founder's version of liberty is to repeal the federal income tax. As long as the U.S. Congress has our money they will control our lives with it. Take the money and you take their power.

You wouldn't find ANY libertarians that approve of income tax my boy. Get real.

Libertarians fail to also see that many so-called private "choices" actually do have an effect on others against their will.

Empty rhetoric with no basis in fact. You made that line up.

For example, gay issues. So-called gay rights means my child must be instructed to be respectful of homosexuality, my business must not discriminate in hiring, my tax dollars must pay for benefits etc. Plus, the culture becomes something entirely unacceptable to the majority -- all to pleasure the degrading passions of 2% of the population. That's freedom for 2%, apathy for about 35%, and oppression for the rest.

Thats sheer BS. Libertarians do not support 'affirmative action' on gay rights. - Socialists/communitarian's do that.

Lastly, to claim that the courts exist to knock down all the legislation they possibly can is to elevate the judges to an all powerful position and to completely change our form of government.

Not at all. ALL officials are required, by oath, to support our Constitution against infringements, -- to "knock down" repugnant 'laws'. -- You simply do not understand basic constitutional principles.

28 posted on 06/01/2005 5:12:09 PM PDT by P_A_I
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To: P_A_I

I just love the ad hominem, strawman, red herring, and other sundry fallacy arguments against Libertarians.


53 posted on 06/01/2005 7:51:07 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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