LIVE Thread: France votes on EU Constitution [Schadenfreude Alert]

Various ^ | May 29, 2005 | nwrep

[nwrep]

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Initial reports show a turnout of 25%. Last polls before voting began show the No vote leading by 56% to 44%.

[Destro]

This from a Lord of the Ring fan. Ha!

[BurbankKarl]

Dutch prepare to deliver their snub

Ian Traynor
Monday May 30, 2005
The Guardian

Dutch government leaders yesterday issued desperate pleas for the public to back the European constitution as the Netherlands, in the shadow of the French vote, prepared to deliver a large snub to the EU.
Three days before the Dutch vote in their sole referendum of modern times, opinion polls at the weekend put the no camp comfortably ahead, confirming a trend that has held consistently for more than a month.

[moatilliatta]

I'm interested how the Eu intends to control dissent among the members on issues of foreign (and domestic, I suppose) issues, especially if they were to have a 'unified' voice in the UN.

What happens if there's another Iraq (such as Syria or Iran) and some EU members want to go in and some don't- how will they represent their position to the UN council, or to the rest of the world, for that matter?

There was, and never has been, any plan to have a unified voice for the EU at the UN. Why would the individual countries want to have their representation watered down?

The system set out in the constitution was that the EU would have a foreign policy only where all members agreed, otherwise it would be left to the individual nations. That's the principle anyway, although I expect the existence of an EU foreign minister would mean that states would be pressed to try and take a common line as often as possible.

[N. Beaujon]

That is because the EU is an oxymoron - free market yet regulated - that is its problem, my sub par fellow American. Sort of like how NAFTA is about free trade yet is regulated like hell.

Too bad I wasn’t the one making the argument that NAFTA was a free market, free trade treaty, you pontificating euro-trash moron. Your patronizing attitude toward the people on this board is revolting. I don’t know about you but I’ve never even heard the EU being discussed on talk radio, which is clearly where YOU’RE getting your limited information.

The EU is what it is, a disparate body of states trying to be the United States of Europe. In reality it was nothing more than an attempt at a cartel, destined to fall apart from the weight of its parties’ own self-interests.

[N. Beaujon]

I choked on that one too, N. What sadly most Europeans don't get - is that they don't have a clue. No wonder they are in such an economic malaise.

Thank you, Motorola, that was really a piece of work, wasn't it? Imagine being lectured about anything by some pontificating ass who calls the people on this board ignorant? I guess someone was pretty desperate to make themselves feel important.

There is more brain power on this board than exists in the entire European community. Except for the Dutch the Europeans don't share a brain cell between them. And, no, I don't consider the UK a part of that community.

[blackie]

Down with socialism, up with Freedom!

Let Freedom Reign!

[Destro]

I am sure you have never heard about the EU anywhwere. By the way - I am American White Trash not Euro Trash and I am not fond of the EU at all - I think it destroys national identies. I just do business there. My patronizing attitude toward the people on this board is required. Someone has to smack some sense into people.

[Dan from Michigan]

I can't believe it. Kudo's to France.

[ExPatInFrance]

Well obviously it is pretty big news in France, "Non!" I think it was the right vote. The Constituition was 400 pages long and people just didn't understand it. The French wouldn't vote for something they didn't understand. I read up a bit on the EU Constitution and I am not supportive of it either. It gives the decision making over to Commissions who are not elected. Whatever the Commissions decide becomes EU law. I hate Chirac, he reminds me of an actor, and the way he talks is so condescending, but I have to give him credit, he put the issue to a referendum and he didn't have to. The countries can legally ratify it through their Parliaments, there does not have to be a referendum, which is what I believe Germany did, which is why Schroeder is in such trouble right now.

Honestly I have not seen any coverage about loosing farm subsidies, and I am an olive farmer and I get subsidies. The No vote was because the French did not want to cede their right of self government to Brussels. In Brussels they already call the Parliaments of the member states the "Legacy Parliaments." That should tell you right there how much power would go to Brussels and these commissions. French love to strike and force their governments to meet their demands through strike actions, which do work. Moving a great amount of the law making to Brussels would destroy a big stick that the general population enjoys and utilizes. And why NOT strike, you get full pay while you are on strike. I can't see the French ever voting to dilute their rights, they love them to much.

[Destro]

Yes, exactly. The EU constitution would have "streamlined" the running of the EU. That is why free trade and globalization advocates were for it. But that is why local French population was against it - they want to strike - they don't want to live nose to the grindstone like say the American and British do. They like to strike (I can hear Americans gasp at that) and they like the inefficiencies in their system (more gasping) and they want to keep control local. There were reason not to like the EU constitution by both left and right in France.