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Thomas Szasz Takes on His Critics: Is mental illness an insane idea?
Reason ^ | May 2005 | Jacob Sullum

Posted on 05/27/2005 12:52:53 PM PDT by neverdem

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1 posted on 05/27/2005 12:52:54 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

She needs to be held accountable for the deliberate murder of a 5 year old child.


2 posted on 05/27/2005 12:58:30 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: neverdem

I think we need to stop worrying about why these people murder other people and just execute them. God knows the reason, we can just deal with the deed.


3 posted on 05/27/2005 12:59:39 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: neverdem
Asked “what [Cromer] was suffering from, if anything,” on the day of the murder, Szasz offered the following opinion based on her records: “She was suffering from the consequences of having lived a life very badly, very stupidly, very evilly.…From the time of her teens, for reasons which I don’t know…whatever she [has] done, she has done very badly. She was a bad student.…She was a bad wife. She was a bad mother. She was a bad employee insofar as she was employable. Then she started to engage [in taking] illegal drugs, then she escalated to illegal assault, and finally she committed this murder.…

I like this guy Szasz!

4 posted on 05/27/2005 1:02:17 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: neverdem

I have to admit that after at least three decades of reading Szasz and all sorts of anti-psychiatric literature (and libertarian literature as well) I still can't put a dent in Szasz' arguments. He will, I believe, be vindicated thoroughly by history. Most of what they call psychiatry nowadays is a clever sham, a new disguise for old witchcraft.

Psychologically, I firmly believe we have advanced hardly at all since the days our ancestors were swinging in trees. Only styles change, and psychiatry is a style.


5 posted on 05/27/2005 1:02:21 PM PDT by Graymatter
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To: neverdem
“his client killed because she is consumed by schizophrenic paranoia —not hate for blacks.”

Tough. Give her the needle.

6 posted on 05/27/2005 1:02:54 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: American Quilter
"I like this guy Szasz! "

His family was so poor when they came to the U.S. they could only afford one vowell.

7 posted on 05/27/2005 1:08:00 PM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: neverdem
Going to school, I knew a number of people heading into psychiatric medicine. Quite frankly, I would not trust those people with the care of my mangy dog.

The fact that we give these people free reign to invent a new disease or disorder a week makes me think that as a whole we haven't moved much beyond witch doctors in really understanding what makes people tick.
8 posted on 05/27/2005 1:09:31 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Graymatter
Most of what they call psychiatry nowadays is a clever sham, a new disguise for old witchcraft.

Bravo!

9 posted on 05/27/2005 1:10:27 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: neverdem

Great article. Thanks.


10 posted on 05/27/2005 1:11:48 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: neverdem
In his contribution to Szasz Under Fire, Ronald Pies, a professor of psychiatry at the Tufts University School of Medicine, cites migraine headaches as an example of a physical condition that is diagnosed based entirely on “the patient’s verbal pronouncements” (complaints of pain, nausea, light flashes, etc.).

I thought they had determined that migraine attacks are associated with distention of blood vessels in the brain, a physical condition. Certainly some of the treatments work by trying to reverse this condition.

11 posted on 05/27/2005 1:13:02 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: neverdem

I cant help but wonder if the killer had been black and had killed a white child would the same pschychiatrist had said the killer wasnt insane.

I do believe this person's hatred of the black race transcends plain bigotry and goes into the realm of the insane.

However having said that, its still no reason not to execute her. She killed a 5 year old Human Being in cold blood and was proud of it. How different is she than a mad dog. Put it to sleep. Take out the brain examine it for rabies and then burn it.


12 posted on 05/27/2005 1:22:45 PM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: Graymatter
I have to admit that after at least three decades of reading Szasz and all sorts of anti-psychiatric literature (and libertarian literature as well) I still can't put a dent in Szasz' arguments. He will, I believe, be vindicated thoroughly by history. Most of what they call psychiatry nowadays is a clever sham, a new disguise for old witchcraft.

I agree with you to an extent. If you have ever known a full bore schizophrenic, which I have, it's hard to deny that this is not a very very dangerously ill person and that the illness is related to his brain.

Every other part of our body gets sick or can be defective. Why not brains?

13 posted on 05/27/2005 1:23:03 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Restorer

She sounds like a founding member of Planned Parenthood.


14 posted on 05/27/2005 1:23:28 PM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: Graymatter

Once upon a time, my bi-polar sister-in-law, during a maniac breakdown, tried to take my brother out of intensive care (where he was being treated for Gillian Barre syndrome, was paralyzed from just below the eyes down, on a respirator, and in great need of being where he was.)

There are times when things go weird in the biochemistry, and get us to behave weirdly.

I tend to believe large amounts of mental/emotional problems will be found to have physical causes/triggers involving the delicate chemistry going on in the brain.

In my bloodline, we have history of ADD and bipolar syndrome that goes back at least 5 generations. Clearly something going on there in the genetics, I suspect. My great aunt was in and our of facilities in her lifetime because of her bipolar condition.

Problem with these diseases they manifest by compromising our mental states.

I do know at times, a person dealing with deep depression will harm themselves. My sister-in-law also went through a three year depression where she tried to commit suicide five times.

It is a good question to know when these things are being abused, and when is it important to intervene. In my sister-in-law's case, they did intervene when she tried to take my brother out, briefly, long enough to juggle her medications and let her get destressed. I suspect she had brief hospitalizations with each suicide attempt as well. As a result, both my brother and my sister-in-law are still with us today.

I know of one case where a schizophrenic young man was fixtated on his father for some reason, refused to take his medication after he turned of age, and did succeed on killing his father.

Should there have been an intervention?

Finding that fine line between the individual's right to decide and society's right to protect itself will always be a tricky border. There have been lots of abuse. I don't have the answer.


15 posted on 05/27/2005 1:27:13 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Thank you for your insightful post.


16 posted on 05/27/2005 1:32:07 PM PDT by Texas Deb
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To: Graymatter
I have to admit that after at least three decades of reading Szasz and all sorts of anti-psychiatric literature (and libertarian literature as well) I still can't put a dent in Szasz' arguments. He will, I believe, be vindicated thoroughly by history. Most of what they call psychiatry nowadays is a clever sham, a new disguise for old witchcraft.

I've always been pretty leery of the whole "mental health profession," more out of instinct than anything else. But I'd be interested in looking over some of the things you've read. Are there any particular titles/authors you'd recommend?

Suddenly my tagline seems unusually appropriate, doesn't it?

17 posted on 05/27/2005 1:36:29 PM PDT by wizardoz (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they AREN'T out to get you.)
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To: El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; ..

This is a long, but interesting read on law, liberty, medicine, neurology, psychiatry and psychology.

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.


18 posted on 05/27/2005 1:38:35 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Great post,
thank you.


19 posted on 05/27/2005 1:39:09 PM PDT by najida (www.lotusdance.com/FreeperettesHunks.html)
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To: Graymatter

I don't buy much of this. It is a fallacy that medical diagnoses are mainly based upon physical examination. The history of the patient - what they tell you - is typically more important, and, as pointed out, sometimes is the only information used for diagnosis.

One of the best ways to confirm a diagnosis is its response to treatment. Anyone who has ever treated a bipolar, schizophrenic, or depressed patient can attest to the efficacy of medications, and to what happens when the patient stops them.

In addition, psychiatric illnesses can result as side effects of medications used to treat other conditions. Interferon can induce depression, and Parkinson's medications can cause psychosis. MRI has also showed differences between normal brains and the brains of schizophrenics.

So , with psychiatric illnesses, we have conditions which respond to specific medications, which can be induced as side effects of other medications, and which, in at least one case, have objective MRI abnormalities. Using a legal argument is like the tail wagging the dog. Saying that psychiatric conditions don't exist because someone in legal trouble can pretend to have one doesn't hold water.


20 posted on 05/27/2005 1:39:36 PM PDT by Toskrin (Power corrupts, but absolute power is pretty cool!)
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