To: Casloy
I'd suggest you read Henry Mayhew's The London Poor. It was written in the 1800s, so I believe it's non-copyrighted and should be available free online.
Capitalism, market forces, etc. are powerful engines capable of truly astounding things. We owe most of our modern world to the miracle of capitalism. But there is a dark side to it, which must be mitigated. That's where minimum wage comes in.
If you know how to splice genes, run a complex piece of equipment, cut cancers out of people, create pastries (sic), formulate computer models for movements in the stock market or have one of a thousand other sophisticated skill sets, then the bidding for your services/expertise goes no place but up. On the other hand, if you have a non-sophisticated skill set, even if you are willing to work hard, then the bidding for your services points downward.
If we, as a nation, devolve into a two-tier economic systems, then we'll be in for a rocky road ahead. It'll be like some South American countries where the rich fly in sushi chefs for parties behind high walls manned by armed guards.
842 posted on
06/01/2005 5:08:18 AM PDT by
durasell
(Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
To: durasell; Casloy
But there is a dark side to it, which must be mitigated. And only the light side of government can stop the dark side of capitalism??? That's funny.
844 posted on
06/01/2005 6:16:00 AM PDT by
Toddsterpatriot
(If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
To: durasell
Congress is once again considering amending its worst economic law, the minimum wage. After decades of experience, everyone should know that regulating the price of labor is identical to any other price control and an especially crude way to fix free markets. Raising the minimum wage will hurt low-income workers, cost jobs, and hobble the American economy. Congress should know by now that bucking the laws of economics does not work.
Simple Economics
A minimum wage operates by removing the lowest rung on the economic ladder it doesnt just take away current jobs, but also future job opportunities. So how many rungs will Congress knock out this time?
Minimizing Economic Opportunity by Raising the Minimum Wage
845 posted on
06/01/2005 6:52:06 AM PDT by
Toddsterpatriot
(If you agree with Karl Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
To: durasell
I'd suggest you read Henry Mayhew's The London Poor. It was written in the 1800s, so I believe it's non-copyrighted and should be available free online.
Well, one to my reading list. Another one I heard talked about from time to time is "Iron Heel" by Jack London (1908). If you want a down and dirty book about the life of the poor and so on, try "Susan Lenox, Her Rise and Fall" by David Graham Phillips (1908, published 1917). After I read that, it really made me much more wise although it verified what I know and believe. After reading that, I felt like I went through 13 rounds with Mike Tyson. I wasn't happy with the ending but I think my Christian beliefs are coming in on this one. I could write a litany about all of that but it will just gum up the discussion so that's for another time.
Capitalism, market forces, etc. are powerful engines capable of truly astounding things. We owe most of our modern world to the miracle of capitalism. But there is a dark side to it, which must be mitigated. That's where minimum wage comes in.
I think of capitalism much like an atomic reactor. It is a good tool when property used and controlled but when it runs away, it can melt down and hurt a lot of people. So that's why we need some sort of "control rods" in the economy. Everything has a dark side and although sometimes a little bit is needed, but when you don't keep it caged up, it will turn on you.
If you know how to splice genes, run a complex piece of equipment, cut cancers out of people, create pastries (sic), formulate computer models for movements in the stock market or have one of a thousand other sophisticated skill sets, then the bidding for your services/expertise goes no place but up. On the other hand, if you have a non-sophisticated skill set, even if you are willing to work hard, then the bidding for your services points downward.
We are seeing that in many skilled areas too, but you have a good point which is my concern about all of this too.
If we, as a nation, devolve into a two-tier economic systems, then we'll be in for a rocky road ahead. It'll be like some South American countries where the rich fly in sushi chefs for parties behind high walls manned by armed guards.
Sort of like something out of a mixture of a dark science fiction movie and Charles Dickens. That is until some time an Anakin Skywalker comes along or until we are nuked or invaded or just fall apart as a nation due to atrophy and antipathy. I know my history too. I'm part Russian, I come from a long line who became Bolsheviks, the ones who stayed. Looking back, they've backed the wrong horse, but it shows a point where if people feel or think they're voice isn't heard, they will look to something else. We could be headed that way.
864 posted on
06/01/2005 8:30:34 AM PDT by
Nowhere Man
(Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
To: durasell
If you don't like getting a flipping hamburger salary then get some skills that will pay more. If there are no jobs in your area then go where there are some. If enough people do that, companies that pay minimum wage will raise their salaries to attract the right people. If you know how to splice genes but choose to live in a small town in idaho you are going to be flipping hamburgers for a living. If we are going to assume that minimum wage has no impact on the economy and doesn't cause unemployment then I suggest we simply raise it to 20 dollars an hour. Better yet, 40 dollars an hour. I don't believe there is a single bit of data that supports the idea a minimum wage does anything to improve the standard of living of anyone. But, you an prove it often causes unemployment. The fact is, some business's have to lay of workers when the minimum wage is raised. What do you say to those employers? The truth about minimum wage is that is is about a bunch of liberal confressmen and senators playing to dumb masses who actually believe they are better off with a minimum wage.
878 posted on
06/01/2005 9:16:25 AM PDT by
Casloy
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