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What you show here is a phenominal lack of understanding of how the Church changes. It does change and it might have changed. Just as the Church would have changed to accomodate Luther on the issue of indulgences, and was about to do so, but they had a sticky problem of the fact that Luther had been calling the Pope "Anti-Christ."

The church has changed its stance in relation to scientific discovery many times and will continue to do so. It will not accept a challenge to its spiritual authority.

BTW: I believe the Church's stance on evolution is one you would agree with, which makes most of this focus on Galileo moot. And nobody has ever discussed Bacon, Linnaeus, or Newton. Neither science and faith, nor science and Church, are in opposition except in the minds of a few. That was the central point that we seem to have strayed from.

Gimme a break, general Catholic apologetics wasn't on the table in this discussion up until now, but, as long as you've asked...

The church behaves itself better now because the rise of the nation-states and the reformation pulled it's fangs. The building in the Vatican used to house the children of jews kidnapped by the church to be raised christian didn't fall into disuse until after the US Civil War, and the church's stance on evolution didn't heel to until 1996. About the only interesting thing you've said, apropos to this debate, is "It [The Church] will not accept a challenge to its spiritual authority."

And that, dear hearts, is what has been wrong with this arrogant church for 1400 years, and why it is, quite rightly, synonymous with the bogeyman in the hearts of so many Jewish and Muslim children--way too many of their ancestors murdered by deputies of a church that "will not accept a challenge to its spiritual authority".

The church behaves itself better now because the rise of the nation-states and the reformation pulled its fangs.

There is some truth to that -- crediting the church with refraining from inquisitions, etc in modern times is sort of like crediting the Democrats for not raising our taxes since January 2001.

And that, dear hearts, is what has been wrong with this arrogant church for 1400 years, and why it is, quite rightly, synonymous with the bogeyman in the hearts of so many Jewish and Muslim children--way too many of their ancestors murdered by deputies of a church that "will not accept a challenge to its spiritual authority".

But in that way is the Church different from any other institution?

Even the "scientific community" is coming painfully close to creating a witch hunt every time someone wants to question evolutionary teaching. When people gain authority they hate to have it challenged.

However, this does not change the original statement that the science and faith mix, and mix well. Politics and challenges to authority don't.

Shalom.