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To: Fester Chugabrew; betty boop
Thank you for your question!

me: The designer could be God, collective consciousness, or aliens.

you: All of the intelligent entities you mention here explicitly denote personhood. Is that a logical, or ontological, necessity where intelligent design is concerned?

A collective consciousness is not a person but an overarching "force" or "field" in the universe which causes it to become more than the sum of its parts.

In a metaphysical naturalist (atheist) worldview this could be seen as a cumulative, overarching epiphenomenon of the physical "brains" contained within space/time.

In a theistic worldview this could be seen as a mediating "field" between God - or "beyond" space/time - and that which is corporeal within space/time. Plato might have called it the "metaxy".

1,291 posted on 05/27/2005 8:53:42 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Fester Chugabrew; marron; PatrickHenry
Plato might have called it the "metaxy".

He might at that, Alamo-Girl! Sir Isaac Newton termed it the sensorium Dei.... I find that particularly apt at the level of a quasi-physical description, for it is directly analogous to the idea of the universal Vacuum field. Plato's metaxy, on the other hand, seems to have more of a psychological than a physical resonance. For it refers to a psychic field "in-between" dimensions, in between matter and spirit; and the phenomena that take place "there" seem to result from the coupling of cosmic fields....

The collective consciousness is, i think, just as you describe it, A-G: "...not a person but an overarching 'force' or 'field' in the universe which causes it to become more than the sum of its parts." Perhaps a more detailed picture would show it as the collective of individual consciousnesses, interacting in some way with that "overarching field." It has been suggested e.g., by Sheldrake and Bohm too, as I recall, that this sort of thing is a two-way street. The evolving universe is evolving intelligence also as it goes along, and humans may have some kind of role in this process.

Then again, you can debase the whole idea of the collective consciousness by pointing to its more unsavory kin -- ideologies are a form of collective consciousness, too.

Been working pretty hard the past several days, so am just "coming up for air" here. Am calling it a day, but thought I'd look in here first. I am amazed that such a light-weight piece as Dawkin's has "inspired" a thread of this length....

Dawkins seems to have studied rhetoric with Saul Alinsky. I mean really, just try to analyze one single paragraph of this screed for its logical form. It virtually has none, it's all proselytization and abuse of his "enemies"... and kissy-kissy for his friends, e.g., Lewontin. Arrgghhhhh!!!!!!!

Anyhoot Alamo-Girl, your posts here have been wonderful and informative, as usual. Thank you oh so very much!!!

1,423 posted on 05/27/2005 8:41:20 PM PDT by betty boop (God alone is Guarantor of an intelligible Universe.)
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