Posted on 05/25/2005 3:41:22 AM PDT by billorites
His own body.
Yes, but isn't it a fact, that the bigger they grow, the more likely they are to collapse? Where have all the churches, so swelled with members, in the 1950's gone? Where are these mega-churches of today, headed for? They will break up and disappear, or some sects will remain. Corruption seems to be built in to them. And if that is so, then they must not have been founded on the true rock.
Truly not defeated, but does that mean they have to have a member still living on the earth? I think they're all waiting in heaven now.
Well, yes, Christ is greater and more perfect, yet we are one as well, especially if he indwells.
You raise an interesting subject that I've pondered, and again it centers on the type-churches in Revelation. One wonders if in addition to being types, if they also might be stages of a church....possible routes they might take??
Which ties into your concern that the flourishing bodies of yesteryear have seemed to collapse in our day, and that the flourishing of today might well repeat that process.....those stages.
The original definition from the discover.org website:
HiTechRedNeck, I am assured that the use of the word “given” as a substitute for “certain” does not limit the intelligent design hypothesis to current knowledge and conversely would require mention of at least some for any particular assertion of the intelligent design hypothesis.
PatrickHenry and AntiGuv, I’m going to fast forward through your discussion to your last suggested rewording:
Considerations such as form, geometry, mathematical structures, semiosis, autonomy, successful communication, complexity and intelligence are within the domain of intelligent design investigation – and the reference to “biological features or processes” might inadvertently limit the debate to bio/chemistry.
The omission of the word “best” in this discussion in combination with the phrase “that are otherwise inexplicable” puts the bar above that which is stated by the fellows at discovery.org. IOW, they are not claiming that there are not other explanations, but that the best explanation is by an intelligent cause. I think your last wording was getting much closer, PatrickHenry!
I suggest amending and revising your last definition as follows:
see my #1665 for possible ways to view...in addition to your perspective which also has merit. Thanks.
Like many terms in the bible there is room for multiple meanings of church. Body of believers. Gathering of Christians and non-Christians that either aren't evident or who are openly inquiring into the gospel. Many are called but not chosen. Called out = ekklesia. It might even be possible to escape the pollution of the world by knowing Jesus then get entangled again (wiser souls than I can debate whether that's an 'ypothetical).
Well, the letters to the churches in the book of revelation, is relevant today, for all the churches are the same, no matter where in time they exist. If the lamp is taken away from them, it is because they deserve it. The virgins who trim their lamps are advised to be somewhere else.
I'm not trying to wrench up the defining, but have you all previously agreed to what is meant by "intelligent." If so, can you ping me to it? Thanks.
Yes, Jesus speaks of that somewhere, sweeping out the house of demons, then they come back and are worse than before.
And somehow, the virgins who have no oil are excluded. A caution worth listening to.
I perceive two visions here about what Science is expected to do. One surveys the scene at each point in its inquiry and tries to make the most likely judgment about what's the case (to date, it's that I won't win the Powerball, unless I get a friend on the ball drawing team), the other takes an 'ypothesis and drills down to the bitter end before starting up with another (keep buying those Powerball tickets, I have an unbustable budget, and we'll see if I ever win before I die).
And yes, I expect we will need to define all the component concepts as well: intelligence, causation, life v non-life, undirected process.
According to the Inquisition.
Someone has to win this tug of war over the definition of what a Roman Catholic is, and if push came to shove the smart money would be on Rome. They're an authoritarian, highly hierarchical church, and have been so ever since mixing up with the Roman emperor for the first time. Surprise. not
The catholic church has also spewed out dissident sects to become other religions a fair number of times. I'm not going to be overly surpised if the next half-century sees this happening again.
The analogy goes so far, and then we can see no more. Were the unwatchful virgins called upon later for some other reason? The story doesn't go past the big event of the coming of the bridegroom, who states he never knew them. Wiser souls than I can debate such details. I know I would not want to miss the second coming even if other chances follow.
My idea in using the expression "features or processes that are otherwise inexplicable" seems (at least to me) to cover the issue of "best." If there's no natural explanation, then the ID hypothesis is the only explanation that's left to explore.
If we do what the Discovery Institute does, and phrase it so that although there may be natural causes, the ID explanation is (somehow) judged to be "best," then we may as well amend all scientific theories to say: "... but to some, ID is preferable." I regard that as a giant step backwards.
The historical changes of how we "do" science is a fascinating subject sometimes visited by betty boop on these threads. I'm hoping she'll add some of her wisdom here.
IMHO, the emphasis on scientific materialism has caused tunnel vision in the United States as compared to former Soviet countries and Asia.
I have heard that the entry of the wise virgins might only temporarily exclude the unwise. Others see the unwise as not possessed of a true faith; therefore, not really Christian to begin with.
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