Try, "we're picking up our marbles and leaving town, we got a better tax deal down the road" -- business's favorite game for 60 years.
So you do not oppose repealling all federal business income and payroll taxes, creating a tax haven in the US. That is afterall one of the effects of the FairTax act, is to end federal taxation of manufacturing, wholsale, and other levels of production upstream from retail sales.
Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee,
Rep. Bill Archer (R-TX)
August 12, 1996
- "A recent survey was done, in Europe and Japan, of the major corporations and I was astounded at the results. They were asked, 'If the US abolished its income tax and went to a sales tax, would that have any impact on your decisions?' Eighty percent of the corporations said they would build their factories in the United States of America. Twenty percent said they would move their international headquarters to the United States of America."
Tax reduction results in return of assets to US.
U.S. Companies Bring Overseas Profits Home; May Create Thousands of Jobs
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Led by drug makers, American companies have started announcing their plans to use a temporary tax break and shift back to the United States billions of dollars in profits that have been stashed abroad.
An incentive to invest in the U.S. economy -- that's how lawmakers promoted the short-term relief that lets companies avoid as much as 85 percent of the taxes they might otherwise pay on earnings abroad.
How about, "NAFTA helped manufacturers undercut their labor contracts and ship American jobs to Mexico?"
But you still haven't answered the question. And "go get your own data" is not an answer.
So repeal NAFTA.
That certainly is not sufficient as businesses were head out long before NAFT came along. Creating a business tax climate that encourages manufacturing to stay in the US creating new jobs and rebuilding American industrial will do more for American economy than merely repealing NAFTA ever will, so do both.
Fortunately a bill before Congress to implement a tax system that will create a manufacturing and business tax haven in the US is in the pipeline in the form of HR25, the FairTax Act. Don't see much happening as regards killing NAFTA, seems to me one should be stoking the fires under what one has at hand more than pie-in-the-sky hopes to be worked toward.
Until some hungry-mouth country offsets the advantage by doing something else.
Yep they could follow the US in creating a national retail sales tax too. From the looks of it, Russia may be headed that way for the advantages that a retail sales tax system would provide against European trade competition.
MOSCOW - VAT may be abolished two years from now and be replaced with a sales tax in Russia. The news came from Arkadiy Dvorkovich, chief of the presidential administration experts department, telling reporters that officials were studying the policy switch and its consequences.
“Obviously, this would be impossible in 2006, but it could be introduced beginning in 2007,” he said, adding that a sales tax of ten to fifteen percent should be introduced along with VAT’s disappearance.
China's supply of prison slave-labor and Malthusian masses of rural poor will afford Chinese businesses a wage advantage for as far as the eye can see. Or do you disagree?
Slave labor is one of the most inefficient forms of production on the planet. Makes for lousy production. There is more to business costs than obtaining labor. The tax system being one of the big offenders. Any action we take to improve the efficiency and encourage manufacturing in the US should be done. Including taxing imports as highly as we do our own domestic production. A national retail sales tax assures exactly that, unlike the current system in which tariffs make up less than 5% of total revenues extracted from American commerce. Time to change the pardigm abit and start focusing on assure our manufacturing receives first billing instead of giving them every reason in the world to skip town looking for greener pastures.
The "fair tax" is nothing but a tax-free operating environment for already-rich businessmen.
Never new a poor man to pay a good wage. Rich busineman do.
They'll be able easily to afford their own sales-tax bills because their businesses will leverage them against the increases.
What increases. The retail sales tax is paid by the end consumer not the business, any business.
In fact all any business can do (provided they expect to stay out of bankruptcy) is pass on costs to the individual consumer in higher prices, employees in lower wages and smaller retirement benefits, and investors in lower returns on investment. All are individual Americans, all have a stake in a healthy manufacturing infra-structure that supports our standard of living.
[You] So you do not oppose repealling all federal business income and payroll taxes, creating a tax haven in the US. That is afterall one of the effects of the FairTax act, is to end .....
Nonresponsive, and spam.
[You, spamming] "A recent survey was done, in Europe and Japan, of the major corporations ....." [More SPAM snipped.]
[Me] But you still haven't answered the question. And "go get your own data" is not an answer.
[You] So repeal NAFTA.
That certainly is not sufficient as businesses were head out long before NAFT [sic] came along. Creating a business tax climate that encourages manufacturing..... [More nonresponsive spam snipped.]
[Me] Until some hungry-mouth country offsets the advantage by doing something else.
[You, turning my point into a fallacious "bandwagon" ad populum appeal to motive] Yep they could follow the US in creating a national retail sales tax too. From the looks of it, Russia may be headed that way for the advantages that a retail sales tax system ..... [followed by more nonresponsive SPAM, snipped.]
You have a really bad habit of using every "reply" as an opportunity to spam more stuff onto the thread that is nonresponsive, not to the point, and basically cut-and-paste billboard stuff you got off a propaganda website somewhere.
I consider your performance on this thread to be 75% pollution and 25% derivative argument from other people's websites.
In your replies to me so far, I haven't detected much in the way of original thought, responsive genuine conversation, or original discourse or POV. All I see in your post to this point is the mouthings of Squealer the Little Pig, from Orwell's Animal Farm. I get the strongest impression, when reading your posts, that I'm not dealing with the head office here -- that you are more like an order-taker at McDonald's than the franchise owner, much less the guy who turns out the menu.
If that seems harsh, so be it. But you didn't show much mercy to the boards yourself, when you decided to back up your dump-truck load of spam.
Do you mean poor quality? That wasn't the American experience with slave labor. Historians of slavery have showed that artisanship didn't appear to suffer in the hands of slaves, and the Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond, armorers to the Confederacy, employed hundreds of slaves in the production of war materiel.
There is more to business costs than obtaining labor.
Sure, but labor that is paid a tiny fraction of anyone else's labor is a big cost advantage. Other factors would have to be awfully unequal to erase it -- and with other countries offsetting our tax structure, including any tinkering you want to do, that isn't likely to happen. The wage advantage will persist; you haven't accounted for it at all.
[You, changing the subject back to taxes and attempting to evade the point about wage advantages] The tax system being one of the big offenders. Any action we take to improve the efficiency and encourage manufacturing in the US should be done.
So it's all about subsidizing business with tax exemptions.
Including taxing imports as highly as we do our own domestic production.....Time to change the pardigm a bit and start focusing on assure our manufacturing receives first billing instead of giving them every reason in the world to skip town looking for greener pastures.
Your demand to be treated as a sacred cow isn't exactly knocking me dead. Just why does your citizenship superordinate mine, again, in that your activities deserve tax exemption and mine don't? You won't pay NRST on your supplies and raw materials or labor -- but I'll pay it on everything I use. You're introducing a tax and social gradus here based on your self-definition as a manufacturing businessman, and treating yourself to special exemptions.
Or, as I put it a while ago,
The "fair tax" is nothing but a tax-free operating environment for already-rich businessmen.
[Your retort] Never new a poor man to pay a good wage. Rich busineman do.
How about, "poor men can't pay good wages, rich businessmen can -- but don't"?
After all, the secret to "trickle down" is not to trickle at all, right? That's why businesses pay fat retainers to management and HR consulting outfits to make sure their cost controls and benefits are the leanest, their wages the meanest, and their workforce the tiniest per top-line dollar in town. Right?
[Me] They'll be able easily to afford their own sales-tax bills because their businesses will leverage them against the increases.
[You] What increases.
The increases in their sales-tax expense on personal purchases. They'll be so rich they won't care, once their businesses get that giant tax break.
The retail sales tax is paid by the end consumer not the business, any business.
Yes, we agree about that -- which is why businesses want to stop paying corporate income and payroll taxes and obtain changes in tax law that would make individuals 100% responsible instead, and them 0% responsible for the federal budget.
And state.
And local.
Right down the line -- you want to make business tax-free, zero tax, none, nada. Such a deal.
In fact all any business can do (provided they expect to stay out of bankruptcy) is pass on costs to the individual consumer in higher prices....
Unless the market won't let them, as has frequently been the case recently as in e.g. airline tickets.
..... employees in lower wages.....
If they can, they do that anyway. They don't need a reason, or an excuse. Just a means.
..... and smaller retirement benefits......
Don't make me laugh -- years of record profits, and they're slashing retirement benefits anyway, despite being better able to afford them than ever! What a joke!
...... and investors in lower returns on investment.
Not when the market discounts the stock to expectations on P/E.
All are individual Americans, all have a stake in a healthy manufacturing infra-structure that supports our standard of living.
That's correct, but as we've also seen from reading the papers, management seems to be getting the lion's share of the value of increases in productivity, no? Shareholders are participating -- and employees are paying for it in job loss and benefit and pay decreases (in real terms).
Which gets back to my original question you never answered.
Did savings go to zero because taxes went up, as you keep suggesting without proving -- putting up correlation after correlation without actually proving your correlations --
or did savings go to zero because wages fell in real dollars???
All I want is an answer.