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To: doc30

You are giving the creationists way too much credit. They HAVE NOT said they want the teaching of the theory of evolution stopped. They want it questioned. Why are the evos so freaked out by that? And, believe it or not, there are Christians who are also scientists, though the vast majority of scientists admit to being atheists. And, by the way, how much evolution do you think is currently taught in US high schools now? Do you think there are a lot of qualified science teachers teaching in high schools? Do you have kids in public high schools now?


70 posted on 05/10/2005 6:40:24 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
And, believe it or not, there are Christians who are also scientists, though the vast majority of scientists admit to being atheists.

According to the statements of the people giving 'testimony' last week, this is not the case. The ID people all gave testimony that there are all evolutionists are atheists, weren't you listening? It was Dr. Miller and others outside the courtroom pleading your point, not the people on the stand.

72 posted on 05/10/2005 6:42:20 AM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: mlc9852
And, believe it or not, there are Christians who are also scientists, though the vast majority of scientists admit to being atheists.

I would ask for sources on that. In my experience, it's about half and half. I know some very religions scientists, and some very hard-core athiest scientists, and everything in between. Certainly no vast majority on either side.
73 posted on 05/10/2005 6:42:42 AM PDT by crail (Better lives have been lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in the halls of palaces.)
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To: mlc9852; doc30
though the vast majority of scientists admit to being atheists.

Not most of them I work with.

78 posted on 05/10/2005 6:47:21 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: mlc9852

I am a scientitist, I am a Christian and I believe in evolution. I see no conflict. That being said, the people representing intelligent design in Kansas aren't scientists. They are creationists arguing in favor of ID. ID = creationism. QED. Moreover, the anti-evolution board members admit to not reading the majority report on the science standards, either. This is further proof that they are not interested in the science cirriculum, but in ultimately promoting a Christian fundamentalist program for all kids, not just those being raise in a fundamentalist Christian home.

The 'question evolution' concept is corrupted. Yes, there is plenty of dicussion, disagreement and quesioning of evolution in the scientific community. This is not critical of evolution itself, but of the details like specific mechanisms of natural selection, how the genetic code has changed, how specific species and lines of species came about, etc.,. It is not a critique of evolution itself. These are things that in order to understand, a good grounding in science and evolution is necessary. Most IDers and creationsists do not have the background to even begin to understand the nature of the work, let alone contribute scientific discussion on the topics.

ID'ers and creationists use these discussions as a wedge to say that scientists don't agree on evolution and extrapolate and spin it to say it is flawed. The questioning IDers purport is designed to confuse and obfuscate the boundaries of science and religion. It is designed to open a door to creationism proper. The Kansas board has to change the basic meaning of 'science' and 'theory' i order to do this. In the long term, Kansas will be hurt.

I also agree with you that science instruction in general is abysmal in the U.S.


85 posted on 05/10/2005 6:58:43 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: mlc9852
You are giving the creationists way too much credit. They HAVE NOT said they want the teaching of the theory of evolution stopped.

In this case. They've tried it before.

They want it questioned.

But they don't have any scientific counter-arguments with which to question it. When they come up with one, I'll be all in favor of the questioning ... as will every scientist on the planet.

Why are the evos so freaked out by that?

Because they see it as an attempt to stifle science for thinly-veiled religious reasons.

And, believe it or not, there are Christians who are also scientists ...

True.

... though the vast majority of scientists admit to being atheists.

I'm not sure about this, but so what? If a dedicated atheist invented a cure for cancer, would you refuse to allow it because of theology (or lack thereof)?

And, by the way, how much evolution do you think is currently taught in US high schools now?

Not much.

Do you think there are a lot of qualified science teachers teaching in high schools?

Depends on what you mean. They are "qualified" as teachers because they've passed a state exam. Does that make them good? Probably not. It doesn't mean they understand science. It doesn't mean they're capable of teaching. It means they have a degree in education and they've passed a state exam.

Do you have kids in public high schools now?

I have one in eighth grade. They did a short unit on evolution.

130 posted on 05/10/2005 7:45:53 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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