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Well, now, this is stirring up the hornets nest that is my brain.

I happen to know of a man who is a narcissist who has completely destroyed all those in his wake, relatively intentionally. He is professionally accomplished, although unable to keep a job. He is an emotional mutant, to say the least. To say I despise this person does not do justice the emotions I have for him.

I believe his narcissisim (and he, unlike the two people I discussed in my original post, has been diagnosed with it) is far more ingrained than the other two. One of the two, I know only from a distance and so could not say that she has the pattern of sucking you in just to show you how great she is (that is, btw, called narcissistic supply). It wouldn't surprise me. The second one, and the one who I am friends with, does have that pattern and I suspect she is a narcissist. I also suspect there are a few other issues.

But, the two I discussed in my original post, do NOT have the pattern of a narcissist in that their professional/academic accomplishments do not involve a period of great achievement followed by a complete flameout.

The other characteristic about the two people I discussed in my original post, and which I think is very applicable here, is a VERY rigid adherence to boundaries and rules. A narcissist knows no boundaries. These two, on the other hand, rely on the rules and boundaries to keep themselves in the game, and feeling superior to everyone else. (And, let's be clear: I think they are a good thing and what keeps society in check, but when they separate you from society and norms of the culture, it becomes something completely different.)

I think Jennifer Wilbanks went through her life doing exactly what was expected of her. Her family was prominent in the community, obviously well-off. She was getting married in a large ceremony. Much pressure on her to perform, just as there always had been. For her to just say, "I don't want to get married, let's call it off," was outside of the boundaries of what she thought she "could" do. Hence, the meltdown, and what I think is the proof of the big crisis.

So, I guess what I am saying is, I'm not classifying Jennifer Wilbanks as a narcissist. I'm classifying her as someone who's done what was expected of her for too long without going outside of the ropes at all or experiencing any of the normal rebellion. And I certainly do not condone what she did.

Having disagreed with you there, the following comment is so accurate:

They seem to be very intuitive in terms of what they can get away with regarding whom, and just how far they can push. They avoid people and situations to begin with, that can't be easily controlled.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Bravo! You're absolutely right!

But I tend to think we are dealing with two different things here: One is malignant narcissism (very nasty indeed, leaves a trail of destruction in your wake, and is incurable); the other is overachievism, which manifests itself with multiple narcissistic traits.

I guess the storal of the mory is this: Balance, people. Balance. And watch how much pressure your kids are putting on themselves.

/armchair psychology (for now, anyway ;-) )

"I'm not classifying Jennifer Wilbanks as a narcissist. I'm classifying her as someone who's done what was expected of her for too long without going outside of the ropes at all or experiencing any of the normal rebellion."

Oh, I wouldn't say she's a narcissist either, we don't have enough info about "the rest of the story" (as Paul Harvey would say) to guess one way or another.

I'm just grateful and encouraged to see that someone else besides me notices some types in general (narcissists) and finds their behavior, especially the tendency to use people, is offensive and worth observation. Most people don't even notice anything unusual.

I used to think it was really rare in common circles, but lately it seems it's an epidemic or something.

If you've never read it, "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck is a great book. He illustrates more the "malignant" type, but that would stand to reason for authorship purposes. Same guy who wrote "The Road Less Traveled," though not as widely acclaimed, as the mental health community gets nervous when you discuss "good" and "evil," and Peck even mentions God. They hate that.

Jennifer? Big, big wedding, and then skipping town four days beforehand, tells me she just doesn't love the guy. The "boundaries" thing applies in that he seems just SO PERFECT (NICE loving, generous guy, NICE prominent wealthy family), and if he's SO perfect and SO devoted to her, she must have felt that she SHOULD love him. He taught Sunday School for heaven's sake!

That I've seen before too. The guy's just TOO nice, and she just freezes. But then she feels guilt, because how many lonely girls would love to have a guy with all those qualities? So she goes along, assuming these feelings (or NON-feelings) will go away. Instead, they get worse. Big Day draws closer, so it all gets worse, till it pops.

It's not the pressure of the event that causes it though. If she loved him, she'd certainly want it "over with," but she'd be looking forward to being married to him, finally.

Yes, "Armchair Analyst" is fun. Especially since we can't get sued (hardly as profitable though....).