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Analysis of President Bush's Press Conference
ABP ^ | 4/28/05 | ABP

Posted on 04/28/2005 7:14:14 PM PDT by crushkerry

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To: ImphClinton

Well, everyone knows they cannot count on it to live on. Even the Canadian government now admits the intention of CPP is to provide only 25% of a person's retirement needs.

Yeah, so a person who squandered their earnings and never saved a dime will likely at least walk away with $500 from CPP, and then a supplememt to bring it to $700 per month. Then when they are infirm the government will put them in a rest home free of charge.


21 posted on 04/28/2005 9:57:01 PM PDT by Lord Nelson
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To: crushkerry
As far as the substance of means testing goes I'm generally in favor of it, especially with regard to entitlements. I'm aware of valid criticisms that ask why should someone be "punished" for being successful. But here, the system is going bankrupt and it may be the 'least worst" option that has a realistic chance to get somewhere.

BS. As long as SS is a mandatory system, why should it be means tested? If what you put into the system bears no relation to what you get out of it, then it is just another wealth redistribution scheme that no self-respecting conservative should accept. Allowing the government to establish means testing is fraught with all kinds of problems. A person's economic situation can change dramatically, even after 62. And whatever means testing is proposed will not affect the looming demographic problem created by the huge cohort of baby boomers who will be going on the rolls in a few years. It will be our children and their children who will pick up the tab. "I got mine, sorry you can't get yours" won't sit well with those born after the cutoff date.

SS does not have to go bankrupt if some changes are made. Personal accounts linked with a reduction in the defined benefits portion of the system can put SS on a firm financial basis permanently.

But the best thing is that by means testing social security you get away from a mentality of a "universal entitlement". Once you put a dent in the fact that someone is "automatically" entitled to a certain benefit level, then you undermine support for the program.

Rather specious reasoning. The reason there is a mentality of "universal entitlement" is due to the fact that SS is compulsory and there is a specific formula, which is used to compute benefits based on contributions. Once you delink contributions from benefits, you will have a political firestorm, which will cause the politicians to bend to the popular will and be gone.

If someone is not "automatically" entitled to a defined benefit, that is when you "undermine support for the program." Who wants to pay into a system and not get any or little benefit? SS is already taxed based on other sources of income.

22 posted on 04/28/2005 10:04:34 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Lord Nelson
we have to understand what SS is to the RATS... SS has been a staple election wedge issue for years and years to scare the hell out of senior citizens.

"those evil repubs want to take away your SS"....same crap every election.

if SS is fixed, they lose one of their MAIN wedge issues

23 posted on 04/28/2005 10:16:45 PM PDT by kingattax
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To: crushkerry
But the best thing is that by means testing social security you get away from a mentality of a "universal entitlement".

...and jump right back into that frying pan known as income re-distribution -- to say nothing of the government engaging in a "bait and switch" scheme with citizens. You don't get out of failed socialist schemes by coming up with more crooked socialist schemes.

24 posted on 04/28/2005 10:29:59 PM PDT by Bonaparte (Of course, it must look like an accident...)
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To: kabar
Who wants to pay into a system and not get any or little benefit?

My father worked like a dog for 65 years, retiring at 90. Even though he received the maximum allowable SS retirement income, he never even came close to recouping what he'd paid in. So it already has a built-in bias against the successful and productive. Like any other socialist scheme, it must.

25 posted on 04/28/2005 10:35:52 PM PDT by Bonaparte (Of course, it must look like an accident...)
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To: kabar

You raise good and valid points. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think that realistically this is about all we could get. Yes, it's still a "universal" system, but in my opinion the long term thinking goes like this:

One of the reasons it's been so hard to change SS is because everyone was invested in it the same way - you retire you get your benefits. Once the more well off people aren't getting the full benefit and it's getting reduced becaue they're successful, an entire portion of the population begins to think the whole program is no good. You have to start chipping away at the support somehow. Is this the way to do it? It's certainly not the best, but perhaps it's a start. Combine that with the fact that peopel around my age (34) realize that they're not going to get much out of the current system, and thus are not as wedded to it as older generations, and you gave some groundwork in place to move toward a better system.

Will it work? Who knows. It's surely not perfect, but it's a start I think.


26 posted on 04/29/2005 5:16:09 AM PDT by crushkerry (Visit www.anklebitingpundits.com for great original conservative commentary)
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To: crushkerry; kabar
Kabar is correct. Means testing is so wrong. Consider this:
Twins get the same job, earn the same amount each year and retire at the same time. No variables other than spending and saving. They pay the same into Social Security their entire lives.

Twin A lived a life style of "spend every penny." He leased nice cars, rented fancy apartments/penthouses, took fabulous trips abroad each year, regularly dined out at the best restaurants. When it came time to retire, Twin A is flat broke. Lease expired on his car, kicked out of his apartment, living on the street with just the clothes on his back. Asset value = $0.00 (zero)

Twin B lived the thrifty live with an eye to save as much as possible. Of course, he deprived himself of the finer things in life so he could save for the future. Bought and maintained his car for many years, bought a modest house, ate a simple diet cooked at home, and used his vacation time to relax at home. Doing so allowed him to save in a variety of investments. When he retired the same day as Twin A, Twin B had assets valued at $5,000,000 (five million).

Social Security kicks in with a means tests. Oh look, poor Twin A - he is broke. But Twin B, the evil rich capitalist exploiter is very well off. I guess the SS will take what money the greedy, money grubbing Twin B should get and give it to the exploited and disenfranchised Twin B to double his income. Thus everyone lives happily ever after. Or do they?

Means testing will discourage saving for retirement and also the transferring of assets to hidden accounts, children, trusts, and other loopholes prior to whenever the SS decide to conduct their means test analysis to determine if you are going to get back any of the money you put into the system. This "dodge" is also encouraged for every benefit the "poor" will get when they retire.

Means testing punishes the Ant and rewards the Grasshopper, if you remember your fables.

Means testing is just wrong.
27 posted on 04/29/2005 7:00:44 AM PDT by Lichgod (Means testing is wrong! (my first use of a tagline))
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To: crushkerry
Once the more well off people aren't getting the full benefit and it's getting reduced becaue they're successful, an entire portion of the population begins to think the whole program is no good. You have to start chipping away at the support somehow. Is this the way to do it? It's certainly not the best, but perhaps it's a start. Combine that with the fact that peopel around my age (34) realize that they're not going to get much out of the current system, and thus are not as wedded to it as older generations, and you gave some groundwork in place to move toward a better system.

I don't agree with you that pitting one economic class against another is the way to lessen support for SS. I would approach it much more positively demonstrating that it is a win-win solution for everyone. Preserving the solvency of SS is really not a difficult problem, especially compared to Medicare, which is really in dire straits and a magnitude of four over SS.

It is imperative that we get the entitlement programs under control sooner rather than later. If we don't, the entire economy will come down like a house of cards. At ge 34, you have a much bigger stake in all of this than I do at age 62. It is interesting to note that both Russia and Germany have been forced to cut entitlement benefits for the elderly now. They have no other choice other than to raise taxes to raise more revenue, which is self-defeating because it decreases their global competitiveness.

28 posted on 04/29/2005 7:11:47 AM PDT by kabar
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To: ImphClinton

Drunken Troll.
Here kitty kitty.


29 posted on 04/29/2005 5:22:44 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: sarasmom
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."Karl Marx
30 posted on 04/29/2005 5:31:55 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: ImphClinton

The robber barrons and IBM put us in prison?
Cool.


31 posted on 04/29/2005 5:33:42 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: sarasmom
Amazing.

You lose an argument and shoot the messenger.

Are you a Dem? Seems that is their tactic.
32 posted on 05/11/2005 8:20:56 PM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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To: Sam Cree
Financial prison that is.

They were so regulated they couldn't go to the bathroom with out federal permission.

That will happen again if the MS and intels get too big for their britches. Sooner or latter their bribes will fail and the people will win. Right now we all get soaked every time we buy a computer with way too expensive Windows and Processors.
33 posted on 05/11/2005 8:24:29 PM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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