Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

More mistakes revealed in ballot counting - WA State Election
Seattle Times ^ | April 26, 2005 | By David Postman and Keith Ervin

Posted on 04/26/2005 9:57:58 AM PDT by schu

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121 next last
To: CyberAnt

I wouldn't say the citizens don't care, I think everyone (including the Feds) is just waiting for the election contest court case to be settled. If they do not throw out this election, that is the time to take to the streets and/or call in the Feds.


81 posted on 04/26/2005 12:09:19 PM PDT by SW6906
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: airborne
Maybe if you weren't so 'flippant', you'd see that this does concern all of us.

You know something ... I'm done with that conversation ... now I can say "get over it" and mean it ... (my post, not this election issue).

82 posted on 04/26/2005 12:11:36 PM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: SW6906

I see your point. I guess waiting for the court to rule is the best thing. But .. when we went through Bush 2000 - we did not wait for the courts to rule - we took to the streets every weekend to protest what the dems were doing. Otherwise .. how do the courts know the public even cares one way or the other.

Just a thought.


83 posted on 04/26/2005 12:16:42 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: SW6906
Have you read Logan's deposition? It is chock full of juicy information. It seems that Dean Logan realized he was being hung out to dry and stepped in front of the bus, rather then waiting to be pushed. I wonder how many other at the King County elections officials will be questioned? Bill Huennekens, Nicole Way, Carlos Webb, Lisa Moore, Vicki Moore, Bobbie Egan, Celeste Dorsey, Mikki Asmundsen and Joanne Gardner should consider their options very carefully!

FROM DEAN LOGAN DEPOSITION:

Q
The next recommendation listed on Page 48 of Exhibit 3 says: Track the error rate, and if significant, implement procedural and/or technical changes to reduce the errors. First, did you track the error rate in the November 2004 general election?
A (Dean Logan)
To the extent that I just mentioned, yes, we did track where we were able to identify that this issue existed, yes.
Q
Did you consider the error rate significant?
A
Yes, I do.
84 posted on 04/26/2005 12:18:48 PM PDT by Splatter (A foolish man is able to learn, has the opportunity, and does not do it..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: All

The Shark at Sound Politics has a fresh post: Logan Deposition (I)


85 posted on 04/26/2005 12:27:13 PM PDT by Splatter (A foolish man is able to learn, has the opportunity, and does not do it..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Splatter

Perhaps they will let the election thing run its course before the DA gets involved. But if someone starts taking the 5th, then what happens? If you were in this spot (like Logan) and saw some things going on that you KNEW were illegal and that potentially you personally would have legal exposure, what would you do?


86 posted on 04/26/2005 12:29:45 PM PDT by schu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Baynative
Thanks for the timelines, but they ignore something I feel is crucial. Just before the final King County tallies came in, the Pierce and Snohomish county numbers were posted. Gregoire gained massively from so-called "undercounts" that were supposedly revealed by the hand counting.

Funny thing is, both counties machine totals had Rossi winning. In every other county, including King, the "extra" votes received by a candidate from the hand recount tended to favor the candidate who already led in the machine count. There were a few exceptions, but only in low-population counties where there were not enough votes to make a significant difference in the final outcome.

Why has nobody focused on possible fraud in both the Everett and Tacoma courthouses? Both are controlled by ultraliberal Rat politicians, and stuffing them would have been a LOT easier with all eyes focused on Seattle. I feel that the King County proceedings are a bit of misdirection on the part of the enemy.

87 posted on 04/26/2005 12:35:32 PM PDT by hunter112 (Total victory at home and in the Middle East!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: CyberAnt
The problem is that despite the ever-increasing facts about the depths of incompetence and outright fraud that keep coming to light...

...AND the admission by the Election Supervisor of King County that he has NO IDEA who won....

...AND that the faux-governor in Olympia (with the cooperation of the State Legislature) is increasing taxes at an alarming rate...

...the bottom line is that the people of Washington State simply DO NOT CARE. It will take nothing short of the proverbial "two-by-four upside the head" to get their attention, and I doubt that will ever happen.

The Feds won't get involved, despite pleas from many citizens to do so. "Where's the FBI?" Where's the U.S. Marshals?" Forget it...they're not coming.

Unless She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed comes out and openly admits "Yeah, we cheated. So what?"...nothing will change.
It's status quo as usual. Sumus Qoud Sumus.

My advice to Washingtonians who are sick of this? Move to Texas. Washington State will never change, and it's going to get worse.
88 posted on 04/26/2005 12:36:41 PM PDT by hoagy62 (Revolution is now the ONLY option.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: hoagy62
hoagy62,

Yes, maybe, but per my earlier post, maybe the Feds are waiting for the Election trial to finish up, then they will get involved. By then, all the "suspects" will have told their story under oath. If I was the DA, that's what I would do. I hope it is so.
89 posted on 04/26/2005 12:45:49 PM PDT by schu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Stellar Dendrite
I think the people are moving to the left but not as fast as the Democrats or Republican party. This is why the Republicans control the legislative, and executive branch. Our country is slowly slipping to the left everyday.
90 posted on 04/26/2005 12:48:17 PM PDT by Sprite518
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: airborne
Logan: "No, I do not." What was the total number of ballots? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

I doubt that any election using current equipment can guarantee accuracy below 1%. Maybe even 5%, 10%. Anyone have the stats? And when the delta between candidates is less than the error, you have problems. Excluding cheating of course. Cheating is a lot easier to hide if small and scattered and more likely to sway and election if the election is close. We need to improve the accuracy.
91 posted on 04/26/2005 1:05:14 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: softwarecreator
I'm limiting my apologies to one per thread.

LOL! You might look into creating a ping list then!

Welcome to FR, glad to have you aboard.

92 posted on 04/26/2005 1:06:15 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with really stupid enemies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: dhs12345
I think the evidence is mounting - soon it may be enough to start a recall petition, perhaps.

At the least, the fraud will soon be too obvious to deny.

93 posted on 04/26/2005 1:12:49 PM PDT by airborne (Dear Lord, please be with my family in Iraq. Keep them close to You and safely in Your arms.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: softwarecreator
Stick around newbie!

As thick as your skin is, you might survive long enough to learn something. ;^)

94 posted on 04/26/2005 1:15:39 PM PDT by airborne (Dear Lord, please be with my family in Iraq. Keep them close to You and safely in Your arms.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: schu
schu You ask what I would do. I would do my job, if Logan had done his, maybe he wouldn't be in this mess.

Here are some of the notes I took while reading the deposition.. (sorry for my sloppy document handling)



A Garth Fell is the assistant superintendent of ballot processing delivery, and Alycia Luke is the supervisor of the distribution center.

There is an assistant supervisor of the distribution center, and I'm having a blank on his name. I'm sure it will -- Marvin Lew.

Political party observers were present or were aware of the opportunity to be present at the warehouse during all activities, and at the admin building during all activities. we did not have political party observers riding in the vehicle when they were transported between those two facilities.

Q When you say, physically removed, you mean, the envelopes are taken out of the bags, but the ballots remain in the security envelope and the outer envelope?

A Correct.

Q Do they also check to see whether the person has already voted by another means?

A That is part of the process. You know, simultaneous to this processing, the staff is also crediting voters from poll books so that -- so depending on where we are at in the processing, there may be -- that is a step that is ultimately conducted before the -- before it's determined whether the ballot can be counted. But we are not able to verify that until after we have given credit from poll books for those people who voted at the polls.

Q Have you completed the process of counting or did you complete the process of counting absentee ballots before counting provisional ballots?

A Not necessarily, no. But the tabulation system is set up in a way that differentiates absentee ballots from provisional ballots. So they're counted at separate processes, but we didn't -- there are provisional ballots counted prior to completion of all absentee ballots being counted.


WAS THE ALARM TRIGGERED AT ANY PIOINT? Let me back up and say the facility itself is a secured and alarmed facility, so it's on an alarm system where we would get notified if -- if the alarm is triggered at any point.

Q And when the alarm goes off the private security company is notified and they contact your office?

A Correct.

Q Who in your office?

A I believe that the first contact is Nicole Way, who is the absentee ballot administrator.

Q Did the alarm ever go off during -- after the election until the hand recount was completed?

A I'm probably not the best person to tell you that. I don't

A No, it was opened to identify the precinct that the ballot is issued from.

Q Issued from. Why do you need that information?

A To determine whether or not -- if we verify that the person is a valid registered voter, we need to be sure that we're counting the ballot in the precinct where they're registered to vote. So we need to know if they've cast the ballot in the precinct where they're registered to vote, or if we're going to have to duplicate that onto a ballot associated with the precinct where they're registered to vote.

Q So when the poll worker removes the ballot from the security envelope and the outer envelope to investigate that issue, they do so prior to verifying that it is a lawful -- cast by a lawful registered voter?

A That's correct. It was done prior -- it was done prior to the verification of voter registration. The people who oversaw that process include Carlos Webb, who is the assistant superintendent of voter registration, Lisa Moore and Vicki Moore, who are the two supervisors within the voter registration system.

A From conversation -- from my staff who oversaw that process when the ballots were processed and through discussions with my communications specialist and her conversations with reporters who recalled it.

Q Who on your staff?

A Carlos Webb, assistant superintendent of registration, and Bobbie Egan, who is the communications specialist.

Q Do you remember generally whether we're talking more than a hundred, more than a thousand?

A The number that's in my head, although I have to tell you that there are so many numbers associated with the work that I do on a daily basis, that I don't know how meaningful this is, but I believe that it was somewhere in the range of 258.

Q Do you ever contact voters directly or individuals directly?

A If there was missing information on the envelope or incomplete information to allow us to do that, there -- we do ask for a day time contact number, and it is -- there are certainly situations by which we would contact the voter again. I don't process those ballots myself, so I can't give you specific examples of where that occurred, but that is one of the means that we would go to, not to verify the registration, but to verify the information that they've provided on the envelope.


Q Who would know about those calls or if any occurred?

A Well, again, the processing of the provisional ballots was overseen by Carlos Webb, assistant superintendent of voter registration, and his two supervisors, Lisa Moore and Vicki.

Q Who does the training?

A It's a variety of people. On the provisional ballot side it would be Vicki Moore and Lisa Moore who train the employees or the staff who were doing the verification. On the absentee side, that was -- I believe that training was provided by Celeste Dorsey.

PG 55

Q I'm trying to get an image of the mechanics. Election worker receives a tray filled with provisional ballot envelopes that are still closed. They open up the -- or they, excuse me, compare the information on the outside of the envelope to information in the data base. If it is -- if it matches,

Q Who crates the in-house batch batches?

A Lead staff at our mail ballot operation satellite.

Q Do you know the names of the people who do that?

A Like in the main people are overseen by Nicole Way, who is the absentee ballot administrator, and then underneath her during the November election, there was essentially three leads, Celeste Dorsey, who oversaw the verification process, Mikki Asmundsen, who oversaw the opening process, and Joanne Gardner, who oversaw the -- actually, Joanne oversaw the insertion process.

PGS. 76 77

Actually, that entire process that I described from verification to opening to tabulation, duplication enhancement, all of that is observed by political party observers, major party observers that we -- that are designated by the political parties and paid by us to be there to provide that oversight as well as any other observers who are provided by the parties.

Q What opportunities do observers have to object to anything they see?

A Again, the observer process doesn't contemplate an objection process. It is an observation process. So keep track of what you observe and form your opinion of what you've observed, but that the law does not -- the interpretation of the law, as we understand it, does not allow for an observer to disrupt that process, or to object to the manner in which that's being conducted.

 


Q Do you know what an absentee ballot audit trail is?

A Well, I think an absentee ballot audit trail could be many things, and I think I understand the concept of an absentee ballot audit trail, yes.

Q What is your understanding of the concept of an absentee ballot audit trail?

A I would define it as an accounting of -- of the processing of that absentee ballot from time that it was received through tabulation.

Q Are you familiar with the Washington Administrative Code provision governing absentee ballot audit trails?

A I believe so, yes.

Q Did King County maintain an absentee ballot audit trail?

A Yes, we did.

Q What information was contained in King County's absentee ballot audit trail?

A Well, I think there are different portions of that absentee audit trail. Some of that is contained in the records that are tracked in the voter registration and elections management system associated with when that ballot was issued, when it was received back, when it was verified, which batch it was associated with. And once it's associated with a batch, there is an individual batch slip that we talked about that accompanies it through the process, and that maintains an audit record of that as well. I know that the staff at the mail ballot operations satellite maintains some spread sheet records based on the information on those batch slips, and ultimately that there is also an audit trail associated with the ballot tabulation system that tracks the number of absentee ballots that were counted in each precinct, were required to count to differentiate absentee ballots from poll ballots and to be able to report on those by -- by precinct.

Q If somebody delivers an absentee ballot to the admin building, how do you identify the precinct to which you're going to assign that ballot?

A Well, the ballot is already associated with a precinct based on the registered voter who the ballot was issued to and who returned it.

 


Q So the precinct returned would reflect an absentee ballot, even if it was -- regardless of whether it was sent in by mail or delivered to a particular poll site, or to the admin building?

A That's going to occur when that ballot gets associated with the batch, and then the batch is uploaded to begin the process of verification, opening, and tabulation.

Q Was part of the King County's absentee ballot audit trail a reconciliation that all absentee ballots counted plus all absentee ballots rejected was equal to the total number of absentee ballots received?

A Can you repeat that?

Q Sure. Was part of King County's absentee ballot audit trail a reconciliation that all absentee ballots counted plus all absentee ballots rejected is equal to the total number of absentee ballots received?

A That was reported in a mail ballot -- in a mail ballot report that is produced to the canvassing board in every election. There is a clear record and audit trail of the number of absentee ballots counted, the number of absentee ballots issued, and the number of absentee ballots rejected. I do not believe that there is a clearly identifiable record that -- that other than from the voter registration system based on those batch uploads that would indicate the total number of ballots received.

A Our voter registration section under the direction of the superintendent and the assistant superintendent of voter services.

Q And what are the names of those people?

A Bill Huennekens and Carlos Webb.

SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDST PG. 134

PG 141

Q The next recommendation listed on Page 48 of Exhibit 3 says: Track the error rate, and if significant, implement procedural and/or technical changes to reduce the errors.First, did you track the error rate in the November 2004 general election?

A To the extent that I just mentioned, yes, we did track where we were able to identify that this issue existed, yes.

Q Did you consider the error rate significant?

A Yes, I do.

 


Q Who is on the canvassing crew?

A It's led by Linda Sanchez, who is the elections operations supervisor, and she utilized approximately I would estimate between 25 and 35 individuals in that process, temporary election staff that had been hired to work on the canvassing crew.

Q And to whom does Linda Sanchez report directly?

A She reports to the assistant superintendent of elections operations, Julie Moore.

Q Do you know whether Ms. Sanchez passed along information prior to the certification about these unverified provisional ballots, passed it along to Ms. Moore?

A I don't know specifically about conversations between Linda Sanchez and Julie Moore.

95 posted on 04/26/2005 1:23:25 PM PDT by Splatter (A foolish man is able to learn, has the opportunity, and does not do it..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: airborne
I hope so. I hope it is vetted and proven right or wrong.

No way do I compare what is going on in Washington to what happened in Florida.

But, most of the U.S. population believe and trust in the elections (real or imagined). Lets hope that it is more real than imagined.
96 posted on 04/26/2005 1:24:49 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: schu
Where are the Feds and the DA?


Hiding under their desks in abject fear they just MIGHT have to do their jobs.

Why fear? Because then democrats will be "shocked shocked shocked"!
97 posted on 04/26/2005 1:30:24 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Dean Logan admitted at least 256 ballots were "opened" then "taped" closed BEFORE they counted the votes.

I wonder how many "taped" ballots were for the Queen and how many Rossi votes never made it to the resealing table. But remember folks.. they never looked at the votes before counting them. That would be wrong.
98 posted on 04/26/2005 1:34:20 PM PDT by Splatter (A foolish man is able to learn, has the opportunity, and does not do it..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: All

In my post, #95, I noticed some Q&A run together. Sorry. My the text doc has margin notes.


99 posted on 04/26/2005 1:38:42 PM PDT by Splatter (A foolish man is able to learn, has the opportunity, and does not do it..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: Splatter
Splatter,

I have read your notes at SoundPolitics, thanks, great stuff.

But the Demos have gotten away with this stuff before, now they get caught, they thought this would all be buried by the crack staffs at the PI and KIRO. Now it is not looking like that AT ALL.

Someone is going to cave under pressure and spill the beans, hopefully soon. Its too late to "do your job", its you or them.
100 posted on 04/26/2005 1:47:20 PM PDT by schu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson