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To: frgoff

Those are good points, though I believe a few of them are no longer the exclusive province of Macs. For example, my laptop has been utterly reliable on hibernation, and comes back up pretty fast (maybe not three seconds, more like seven or eight). But you are right that Apple puts a great deal of effort into user experience.

As I said in an earlier post, Microsoft has been investing elsewhere. And because of that, here are the things I can do with Windows that I don't believe are nearly as practical on a Mac:

- Run an application with full handwriting recognition (TabletPC) that actually works - invaluable in many healthcare and education scenarios. (I think this factor may drive Macs out of education at the college level. Some colleges already require Tablet PCs, and the software for students to manage their notes and studies is a quantum leap)

- Create a professional, data-driven web site with user authentication, caching, sophisticated themes and menus, etc. - in less than an hour (ASP.NET 1.0 is pretty good, but 2.0 is amazing - you won't believe what can you do until you try it)

- Easily develop smart client programs that can run on a large majority of the desktops out there with a high degree of usability, yet get their data via Web Services from anywhere on the Internet. This enables highly distributed systems to function with the almost all the usability of local systems.

- Plug in just about anything that one can buy at CompUSA or Office Max, and know that the device drivers are available for XP, and it will almost certainly run right out of the box

I'll throw all of your usability points away to save the experience of trying to buy and install peripherals from a much smaller set of options. In my long microcomputer experience, working with peripherals has easily been the source of the most frustrating episodes.

Apple used to have a lead there. But starting with Win2000, Microsoft put in place a program that forced vendors to do a better job on drivers. That, plus the dominant market position of Windows which ensures that almost everything out there will have a driver for it, has tilted the balance back to MS on peripherals.

There is one area where the Mac is clearly ahead, and it is of major consequence. You are quite correct to emphasize the ease of installation of software on Macs. Dependence on COM in Windows has really hurt Microsoft there. That was one of the reasons for changing directions to .NET, which has the same copy-and-run deployment model you described.

It will take quite a while for most software to return to that model on Windows. Until then, complicated install programs are the bane of Windows. There has been some improvement; most installs don't require a reboot now, for example, whereas five years ago almost all of them did. But Apple certainly is ahead there.


118 posted on 04/26/2005 8:03:32 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: Joe Bonforte
Again, same thing.  You brought up some very good and accurate points without resorting to ranting and raving.

People like you and frgoff (post #103) are the type that will make Windows users stop and listen to what you have to say.  No one is going to listen to someone screaming at them as they turn purple with anger  Who can take that person seriously?

135 posted on 04/26/2005 9:28:54 AM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
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To: Joe Bonforte
Those are good points, though I believe a few of them are no longer the exclusive province of Macs. For example, my laptop has been utterly reliable on hibernation,

This isn't hibernation, where the contents are dumped to disk (which can take a LOT longer than 7 or 8 seconds on a 1 GB RAM system). This is sleep, or in PC parlance, standby. A feature that I have never seen work reliably on the PC side of the fence.

Run an application with full handwriting recognition (TabletPC) that actually works

Inkwell. It's slick. Uses the Newton handwriting recognition software that has been improved over the years. Plug in a graphics tablet, and the technology is enabled.

(I think this factor may drive Macs out of education at the college level.

I doubt it. Handwriting is a horrible input method. Slow and inefficient. It has its specialized applications.

- Create a professional, data-driven web site with user authentication, caching, sophisticated themes and menus, etc. - in less than an hour (ASP.NET 1.0 is pretty good, but 2.0 is amazing - you won't believe what can you do until you try it)

Not my field, so I'll have to pass on comment, though Web Objects is supposed to be pretty amazing.

- Easily develop smart client programs that can run on a large majority of the desktops out there with a high degree of usability, yet get their data via Web Services from anywhere on the Internet. This enables highly distributed systems to function with the almost all the usability of local systems.

This sounds like marketing speak for thin clients. We'll see. Bandwidth is a bear with these sorts of solutions.

Plug in just about anything that one can buy at CompUSA or Office Max, and know that the device drivers are available for XP, and it will almost certainly run right out of the box.

I'll throw all of your usability points away to save the experience of trying to buy and install peripherals from a much smaller set of options. In my long microcomputer experience, working with peripherals has easily been the source of the most frustrating episodes.

Because you use Windows. You sort of contradicted yourself, here, and the driver implementation on Windows stinks.

I plug in a USB mouse on my Mac and it works immediately. I unplug it and plug it into a different port, and it works immediately. I plug in a second mouse, or a different mouse, and it works immediately.

I plug in a mouse in WinXP, and I have to wait while a wizard launches and runs through the whole searching for drivers for your new hardware device wizard. Yeah, it runs automatically, but I'm twiddling my thumbs while the process goes on.

Unplug my mouse and plug it into a different USB port, and guess what? It does it again.

Plug in a different mouse and it does it again.

I bought an external USB 2.0 hard drive for my Mac. It came with a Windows driver disk. A driver for an external hard drive?!?! Sure enough, it wouldn't recognize until I ran and installed the driver.

There is one area where the Mac is clearly ahead, and it is of major consequence. You are quite correct to emphasize the ease of installation of software on Macs. Dependence on COM in Windows

And that Spawn of Satan known as the Registry.

The objective conclusion here is that the Mac user experience is overall superior to the Windows experience. There may be specialized markets where Windows is required, but if you ask most people why they use Windows you'll get one of the following answers (your arguments are on this list)

  1. Everyone else uses it.
  2. The IT deparment has mandated it, because everyone else uses it.
  3. Because I use one at work because IT mandated it because everyone else uses it.
  4. I use my computer for games.
  5. I require a piece of hardware or software that is only available for Windows (The least cited, but most legitimate reason).

    Personally, I'm happy to be off the Windows juggernaut, and have no desire to go back, but to each their own.


136 posted on 04/26/2005 9:32:30 AM PDT by frgoff
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To: Joe Bonforte
Run an application with full handwriting recognition (TabletPC)

Very true. Apple doesn't have a tablet. OTOH, I hate tablets.

Create a professional, data-driven web site with user authentication, caching, sophisticated themes and menus, etc. - in less than an hour

Basically you've described a site builder using templates. There are lots out there. But .NET 2.0 looks to be pretty good when it finally arrives.

Easily develop smart client programs that can run on a large majority of the desktops out there with a high degree of usability, yet get their data via Web Services from anywhere on the Internet.

Java, which has been doing remoting and Web services for a long time. It's security model while remoting is actually far better than .NET's, as even a Microsoft rep has admitted.

Plug in just about anything that one can buy at CompUSA or Office Max, and know that the device drivers are available for XP

I bought my scanner, printer, Palm, video digitizer, mouse, keyboard, external hard drive and USB key from places like that. They are all even more plug-and-play on a Mac than on my PC. And I originally bought them for my PC.

152 posted on 04/26/2005 12:10:07 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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