Posted on 04/19/2005 8:53:39 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
Now you ruined it! mondale....barf.
I've been to Mass at St. Peter's, that was magnificent. This should be incredible.
Regards, Ivan
Is he little? To me he is:
POPE BIG BEN!
An excellent post.
Georgetown U might get a wakeup call as well ...
I love that photo.
"You'd rather be in Spain?" Nope. Shipped us off to Texas thinking we'd die off. Forgot we were a desert people. Indians were nothing compared to Arabs.
"Did they, as some did, claim to be Catholic while remaining at heart Jewish?"
Well, it was that: (1) die or (2) have all property taken away and then die. THAT forced conversion is the not-so-little deceit in the "only affected Catholics" line.
"Were they expatriated by the Church, which didn't have the authority to do so or by the secular government which did?"
I would answer with a question. Did the Jews crucify Christ, even though they didn't have the authority to do so, or did the secular government do so? Same issue here, I suppose.
Don't get me wrong. History is history. ALL human organizations are flawed because they are made up of men --- especially churches because the devil has a vested interest in messing them up.
Which is why I LIKE this pope. A back-to-the-basics guy, it sounds.
Two words: "idjiot priest". God forgive me.
And 3-5000 people were killed. That's about ten per year.
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisitionby Ellen Rice
"The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition," a 1994 BBC/A&E production, will re-air on the History Channel this December 3 at 10 p.m. It is a definite must-see for anyone who wishes to know how historians now evaluate the Spanish Inquisition since the opening of an investigation into the Inquisition's archives. The special includes commentary from historians whose studies verify that the tale of the darkest hour of the Church was greatly fabricated.
In its brief sixty-minute presentation, "The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition" provides only an overview of the origins and debunking of the myths of torture and genocide. The documentary definitely succeeds in leaving the viewer hungry to know more. The long-held beliefs of the audience are sufficiently weakened by the testimony of experts and the expose of the making of the myth.
The Inquisition began in 1480. Spain was beginning a historic reunification of Aragon and Castile. The marriage of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile created a unified Hispania not seen since Roman times. Afraid that laws commanding the exile or conversion of Jews were thwarted by conversos, i.e. synagogue-going "Catholics," Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned an investigation or Inquisition. They began the Inquisition hoping that religious unity would foster political unity, and other heads of state heralded Spain's labors for the advent of a unified Christendom. The documentary clearly and boldly narrates the historical context, which intimates that the Spanish were not acting odd by their contemporary standards.
The Inquisition Myth, which Spaniards call "The Black Legend," did not arise in 1480. It began almost 100 years later, and exactly one year after the Protestant defeat at the Battle of Mühlberg at the hands of Ferdinand's grandson, the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. In 1567 a fierce propaganda campaign began with the publication of a Protestant leaflet penned by a supposed Inquisition victim named Montanus. This character (Protestant of course) painted Spaniards as barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys. The propagandists soon created "hooded fiends" who tortured their victims in horrible devices like the knife-filled Iron Maiden (which never was used in Spain). The BBC/A&E special plainly states a reason for the war of words: the Protestants fought with words because they could not win on the battlefield.
The Inquisition had a secular character, although the crime was heresy. Inquisitors did not have to be clerics, but they did have to be lawyers. The investigation was rule-based and carefully kept in check. And most significantly, historians have declared fraudulent a supposed Inquisition document claiming the genocide of millions of heretics.
What is documented is that 3000 to 5000 people died during the Inquisition's 350 year history. Also documented are the "Acts of Faith," public sentencings of heretics in town squares. But the grand myth of thought control by sinister fiends has been debunked by the archival evidence. The inquisitors enjoyed a powerful position in the towns, but it was one constantly jostled by other power brokers. In the outlying areas, they were understaffed - in those days it was nearly impossible for 1 or 2 inquisitors to cover the thousand-mile territory allotted to each team. In the outlying areas no one cared and no one spoke to them. As the program documents, the 3,000 to 5,000 documented executions of the Inquisition pale in comparison to the 150,000 documented witch burnings elsewhere in Europe over the same centuries.
The approach is purely historical, and therefore does not delve into ecclesial issues surrounding religious freedom. But perhaps this is proper. Because the crime was heresy, the Church is implicated, but the facts show it was a secular event.
One facet of the Black Legend that evaporates under scrutiny in this film is the rumor that Philip II, son of Charles V, killed his son Don Carlos on the advisement of the aging blind Grand Inquisitor. But without a shred of evidence, the legend of Don Carlos has been enshrined in a glorious opera by Verdi.
The special may be disturbing to young children. There are scenes of poor souls burning at the stake, and close-ups of the alleged torture devices. Scenes depicting witches consorting with pot-bellied devils are especially grotesque. For kids, this is the stuff of nightmares.
Discrediting the Black Legend brings up the sticky subject of revisionism. Re-investigating history is only invalid if it puts an agenda ahead of reality. The experts - once true believers in the Inquisition myth - were not out to do a feminist canonization of Isabella or claim that Tomas de Torquemada was a Marxist. Henry Kamen of the Higher Council for Scientific Research in Barcelona said on camera that researching the Inquisition's archives "demolished the previous image all of us (historians) had."
And the future of the Black Legend? For many it may continue to hold more weight than reality. There is the emotional appeal against the Church. The dissenters of today may easily imagine Torquemada's beady eyes as a metaphor of the Church's "dictatorial, controlling, damning" pronouncements. The myth is also the easiest endorsement of the secular state: "de-faith" the state and de-criminalize heresy. Who will be the revisionists in this case? Will the many follow Montanas' lead in rewriting history?
Our 20th century crisis of man playing God - usurping power over conception, life, and death - leaves us with no alternative but to qualify our demythologization of the Inquisition with a reminder: 3,000 to 5,000 victims are 3,000 to 5,000 too many.
YES!!! :-)
Not looking for a fight, so hear me out. That source is a Catholic paper, so arguably biased. Is it possible that Benedict does not need defending? In other words, maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. As a young, scared boy, maybe he did not challenge his induction into Nazi service as vehemently as maybe his beliefs would have suggested. But it also sounds like he didn't really do much in the service to aid the Nazi's, either, and sought to get away asap.
THEN, in the time that followed, from say, 16 until his ordination at 24, he came to terms spiritually with his actions. There is a big difference between actively joining the HY and being dragged in kicking and screaming. There is also a place in the middle.
Sounds like whatever transpired in the War, JPII found either Benedict's actions or his renouncement of said actions basis for respect and friendship. And POPETITUDE!
I just meant he looks very approachable, you know? Cute like Cheney, sort of. (Yes, I'm babbling!)
When elected, would the announcement be HABEMUS LAZAMATAZ? Hee.
Look, I do too, but I need another shot at the title.
I'd sure liven up the Vatican.
It is a very blessed moment, Onyx. The spoken announcement and prayers said in Italian and Latin also had great spiritual resonance for me.
Thank you, Onyx. :)
I hope he remains healthy for a long time. He has a hard row to hoe with the world going to hell in a hand basket. People like sKerry and drunken teddy will dispise him I'm sure. He's already being slammed by MSM. Poor man.
Be not afraid!
Thank you
~smile
Actually, it's not that uncommon fro the favorite to be elected. Pius XII, John XXXIII, and Paul VI were each widely expected to be elected, and of course, each was.
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