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Riding the free trade raft over the falls
WorldNetDaily ^ | April 18, 2005 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 04/18/2005 6:37:40 AM PDT by A. Pole

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To: CSM
By offering tarrifs as the solution, aren't we asking that the quality of life for Americans be lowered?

You mean, the quality of life as in what is offered by America's largest employer (outside of the government) WalMart?

In reality, this article proposes lowering the purchase power of Americans, therefore harming our citizens in every day life.

In reality, this article demonstrates the failures of free trade, not theory, as in your reality.

If there is such a connection between the trade deficit and employment, why is the unemployment rate not affected?

There is a connection between free trade and employment. Protectionists argue that free trade lowers the standard of living. Low unemployment demonstrates what everyone knows already, American workers are the best in the world and are willing to work three jobs to prove it.

81 posted on 04/18/2005 9:26:17 AM PDT by Nephi ("I am in favor of free trade." - Karl Marx)
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To: phil_will1
"Karl Marx loved the idea of Free trade. Anything Marx was for, I'm against."

Karl Marx was also a strong believer in a graduated (or progressive) income tax.

I know. That's one reason that I'm in favor of a national retail sales tax, or a flat tax, or practically anything other than the mess we have now.

82 posted on 04/18/2005 9:26:40 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Nephi

"You mean, the quality of life as in what is offered by America's largest employer (outside of the government) WalMart?"

Exactly how is this a poor quality of life?

"In reality, this article demonstrates the failures of free trade, not theory, as in your reality.

Are you honestly claiming that by making products cost more, via adding a tarrif, that spending power is not reduced? If a product costs more, then we have to earn more to purchase that product, as a result quality of live is harmed, a direct harm to the citizens of the country charging the tariffs. That is not theory, regardless of your inability to understand it.

"There is a connection between free trade and employment. Protectionists argue that free trade lowers the standard of living. Low unemployment demonstrates what everyone knows already, American workers are the best in the world and are willing to work three jobs to prove it."

Unproven claims rarely are convincing.


83 posted on 04/18/2005 9:32:16 AM PDT by CSM
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To: Alberta's Child

>>"When the U.S. dollar declines against the Euro, the Chinese yuan declines against the Euro even if there is nothing in the Chinese economy that would otherwise cause such a decline."<<

China has complete control over the Yuan, it's their decision to peg or unpeg. The devaluation of the Yuan versus the Euro, because it's pegged to the dropping dollar, is again a boon to China - making its products even more competitive in the European market. And in a double whammy to European companies, because of the dollar drop - thus yuan drop - versus the Euro, China will now buy more from the US than from the Europeans, since the Dollar-Yuan rate remains unchanged. Europeans here in Shanghai are hoppin' mad about it.

Under these circumstances, why would China want to unpeg the yuan from the dollar?


84 posted on 04/18/2005 9:33:09 AM PDT by guitfiddlist (When the 'Rats break out switchblades, it's no time to invoke Robert's Rules.)
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To: babble-on
So if we stop trading with China, they will become more politically free? Its worked great in Cuba, that's for sure.

The freedom of people in China is not my main concern. The ability of the United States to produce its own steel, ships, machine tools, microchips, and aircraft parts is. As I said, my primary objection to unlimited free trade is the damage done to our economic and national security by the loss of our manufacturing base.

The reason Cuba is still enslaved has nothing to do with trade policy and everything to do with Fidel Castro and his cronies. Dispose of them and Cuba's vibrant and creative people will make the country bloom. Likewise, as for the people of China, the only way they will ever be free is if the national socialist government in Beijing is destroyed. The best thing we could do for the Chinese people would be to pop off a nuke over Beijing and remove the taskmasters that dominate them. I fail to see how our lining the pockets of the Chinese military/industrial complex that keeps said government afloat promotes their freedom. Instead, we should arm ourselves against the Chinese government and force them to bankrupt themselves trying to match our military might. It worked with the USSR.

85 posted on 04/18/2005 9:34:44 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Sam Cree
...if you think free trade will be harmful to our society, you and Karl Marx agree.

Even a blind hog occasionally roots up an acorn.

86 posted on 04/18/2005 9:37:35 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Racehorse; Nephi
"If they don't play by the rules, why should we ? This question, and all relevant variations, is what the free traders do not grasp"

I don't disagree with the above. As I noted a couple posts ago, it's academic to talk about free trade as if it actually existed. It can only exist when both sides are "free." So, I am not as passionate about free trade as I am about the free market, for that pragamatic reason.

But as far as the concept of the free market goes, yes, I am passionately in favor. And the free trade concept too, by extension.

In other words, we can make sure we have a free market, we cannot do the same as easily with trade.

87 posted on 04/18/2005 9:38:47 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Alberta's Child
That is not a fair comparison by any means, and in fact, I think its inaccurate. However Buchanan does make a good point about free triators not having any answers to the wholesale loss of jobs and industry, the trade deficits, and the potential national security concerns this poses.

I usually don't agree with Buchanan.

88 posted on 04/18/2005 9:39:06 AM PDT by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: Sam Cree
"Free trade organisations and treaties are the stepping stones to world government."

I don't recognize the validity of the above statement. If there were one government, and it was one dedicated to freedom, one can imagine that it would allow a free market. OTOH, if it were operated as are most of the world's governments, it would be the opposite, based at some level on Central Planning.

Democrats don't understand the dynamic impact of taxes on the economy, either, so it must not happen.

How do tariffs enacted by congress in the US fall under your definition of central planning for world government? I thought tariffs were isolationist, protectionist? (In fact, they are and that is what is good about them.)

Democrats aren't the only herd animals.

89 posted on 04/18/2005 9:40:48 AM PDT by Nephi ("I am in favor of free trade." - Karl Marx)
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To: B-Chan
"But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade.

First published in French as a pamphlet at the beginning of February 1848

Signed: Karl Marx {end}

Your acorn. You are actually comfortable agreeing with Marx, while professing to disagree?

90 posted on 04/18/2005 9:41:41 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: B-Chan
The reason Cuba is still enslaved has nothing to do with trade policy and everything to do with Fidel Castro and his cronies.

Be clear; tell us that free trade with Cuba would not tranform Cuba. Come on, say it.

91 posted on 04/18/2005 9:43:40 AM PDT by Nephi ("I am in favor of free trade." - Karl Marx)
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To: KC_Conspirator
Buchanan does make a good point about free triators not having any answers to the wholesale loss of jobs and industry, the trade deficits, and the potential national security concerns this poses.

With all due respect, the free traders do have an answer.  "Let em eat rice cakes."  :-)

92 posted on 04/18/2005 9:46:32 AM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: cinives
All Buchanan is advocating here is to increase the take of the federal government and a lower living standard for us all.

Absolutely and positively correct! Well stated!

93 posted on 04/18/2005 9:47:06 AM PDT by Bigun (IRS sucks @getridof it.com)
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To: A. Pole

Timing's interesting, eh? Tomorrow is Patriots' Day.

Ride to the sound of the guns!!!


94 posted on 04/18/2005 9:48:32 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Racehorse
Or let them eat curry.

Most of them don't even think there is a problem.

95 posted on 04/18/2005 9:48:47 AM PDT by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: Sam Cree
"But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution.

Marx was right. So was Perot. So is Buchanan. We have history and facts to prove it, yet you cling to your globalist trade theory like a liberal clings to taxes.

96 posted on 04/18/2005 9:49:19 AM PDT by Nephi ("I am in favor of free trade." - Karl Marx)
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To: Racehorse

Adam Smith would regard the Bush Trade Doctrine as a 'how-to' manual for running a house of prostitution. Bush & Co., of course, are the madams.

It's your sons and daughters who actually are getting scre*&^ without any kisses...


97 posted on 04/18/2005 9:51:09 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Nephi
Be clear; tell us that free trade with Cuba would not tranform Cuba. Come on, say it.

I might say it.

With whom in Cuba will we be conducting this free trade?

98 posted on 04/18/2005 9:51:13 AM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: Bigun

I don't blame you for ignoring the facts in Buchanan's article.


99 posted on 04/18/2005 9:51:13 AM PDT by Nephi ("I am in favor of free trade." - Karl Marx)
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To: Strategerist

Well, we're still waiting for the RedChinese consumer marketplace to emerge.

Might take another 50-100 years, but THEN the US will prosper, right?

Except by 50 years out, the knowledge of tool and die making will have completely evaporated in the US.


100 posted on 04/18/2005 9:53:10 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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