kosta50 said: "Also, you can't outlaw a religion! Christianity was outlawed and persecuted for 300 years and all it did was grow and grow until it finally took over."
And I agree completely. Oppression (real or imagined) has only helped Christianity to grow and spread. Islam is really much the same in that respect. If you oppress, cruelly, harshly and unfairly it will only spread. Unfortunately "perceived" oppression - made up sometimes by Muslims or just misunderstood has the same effect. That's why we in the West have to stick to our values of civil liberty, democracy, tolerance (including freedom to worship) and openness. If people behave badly, come down on 'em like a ton of bricks - but do it openly and fairly.
There's a lot of talk about Islamaphobia in the UK - that's the "irrational fear or hatred of Muslims". At first I thought the "Muslim community" were completely making it up - but reading some of the posts in this forum I see there is a lot irrational fear and misunderstanding about Islam (and I have already posted that I don't care for Islam one jot).
Irrational fear isn't constructive. But understanding and discourse is. There are a lot of bad Muslims out there and that they are dangerous (this seems well understood), but folks also have to understand that there are in fact a lot of decent Muslims out there who could take a lead in their religion and culture being more tolerant - and dare I say it - more Westernised.
And please believe me, I do understand what some Mullahs are preaching. I've worked with a guy who was a full-on Nut-case Islamic fundamentalist who I have no doubt would have happily killed me if he thought it would promote the spread of Islam (and who, by the way, was actually very pleasant to work with, I learned a lot from him) But squashing this guy, when he hadn't actually done anything and hadn't said anything either (my earlier description of him is just MY perception) would have only enraged his Muslim brothers - and rightly so.
Kind and decent Muslims are either apostates or liars. In fact, Islam teaches Muslims to lie to the infidels if need be. Deception is not a moral obstacle to them.
Our societies are incompatible. But the problem is that we are willing to accept even that which is incompatible with our values and society for the sake of worshiping some "fairness." Left to their own devices the Muslim world will lock itself into a 7th century Bedouin prison and stay there. As such it will not be too attractive to many a hater who has joined Islam, nor too radicalized, because being a devout Muslim is an all-day job. They will exist unto themselves.
The problem is that we are interacting with them. That introduces all sorts of temptations and "immoral" ideas -- such as women drivers! They know that women look better dressed as western women than as beekeepers.
They know that most people like music and movies. They know that living in a 7th century on a 21st century earth is hell and that Muslims would gladly give up their moon god if they could -- so the Muslim establishment bites back. They are frightened that they will lose their 7th century appeal in favor a 21st century "decadence."
It is easier to separate than to fight. Ignore them. Don't mix with them, even ostracize them. But don't give them the reason to fight. They will turn on each other. Muslims can't stand each other. Look at Shiia and Sunni rivalry, and look how divided the Muslim world is.
When they fight they think they are doing God's work (heaven forbid!), they think they are martyrs. If you lived the life they live becoming a martyr might be even appealing. Why give them the pleasure? If they don't have an external enemy, they will find an internal one -- and slaughter each other.
All we have to do is pump them up with our music, fashion, TV, movies, attractively dressed women and so on. They are curious and tempted. It's human, it's natural. That will not make them fight, that will make them close their doors and run!
We need to leave them to their own devices and let them fight it our amongst themselves. But the less we interact the better it will be for all of us. Islam and our cultures are not compatible.