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To: DarthVader
That Bismark's own crew may have helped send her to the bottom is a classic distinction without a difference. According to Burkhard Bron van Mullenheim-Rechberg (and "Mullenheim" should have an umlaut over the "u", but I don't know how to do that), in "Battleship Bismark A Survivor's Story," by the end of the engagement, Bismark didn't have a functioning weapons system left. He was in a position to know, being an officer in one of the main batteries and personal adjunct to the captain. With Bismark incapable of self-defense, the British would simply have used her for target practice until she did sink.

It's a great book, by the way. Have you read it? You sound like you'd be interested. IIRC, the good Baron repeats the story of the crew attempting to scuttle her, but doesn't know whether there's anything to it.

While Bismark's escape might have been a great propaganda victory for Germany, I doubt that it would have done much to alter the course of the War in the Atlantic. Hitler had little-to-no understanding of naval warfare, and there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have found a way to waste one more asset.

330 posted on 04/16/2005 11:08:24 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
Watched a documentary on Bismarck ...a British group...intent on proving the Royal Navy did infact sink her.
Bismarck had several large fracture tears....the debate...wether these occured from the hull slamming the saefloor..or from torpedo hits.
There was one area which really appeared to be a torp hit from the angular fracture of the hull plating.
It was big....Bismarck may have had men attempting to scuttle her.
likley...the water volume pouring in margined the R.N. beat them to the punch.

Bismarcks sister...the Tirpitz recieved alot of attention in fall 43.
USS Isherwood and a U.S. battlegroup joined up with a R.N. battlegroup at Scapa Flow...and went to get her.
I imagine German intel had the lay of it..and margined to tuck Tirpitz away in a Fiord.
A couple of bluejackets from DD520 shared with me at a reunion that they were scared indeed at the prospect of facing Tirpitz...glad she hid in the Fiord.
The weather around Spitzbergen was really nasty....with Luftwaffe out and about....plus subs.
Afterwards,...DD-520 became Flag of Des Div 98....keep the cold weather gear....your off to the Aluetians in the Pacific.

331 posted on 04/16/2005 11:26:43 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Gumlegs

I would love to read BMR's book. It's like I said she was finished as a fighting ship and was a wreck. I doubt that if she remained afloat that the British would have stayed for target practice:

1) The British fleet was dangerously low on fuel and the main reason Tovey had the Dorsetshire torpedo her is he was aware of the situation and wanted to get out of there and get back to Scapa Flow.

2) The threat of U-boats. Tovey's fleet was not that far from German occupied France and there was a reasonable threat from the submarines or even possibly the Luftwaffe. Tovey's task force was critical to the British navy and he was not going to risk his assets on standing by too long and falling into a wolfpack trap. Had that happened victory would have turned to disaster.

" Hitler had little-to-no understanding of naval warfare, and there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have found a way to waste one more asset"

Good point about the little corporal's ineptitude with naval matters. Hitler was gun shy over the loss of the Graf Spee. Yes but such a victory might have emboldened him or even Group West into another operation. At the time the German raiders and U-boats were quite sucessful. The S/G raid which Gunther Lutgens commanded had bagged 22 ships.
They could have easily sent 4 heavy units out in any combination, Had they done this at this time it could very well effect the war, from a psychological standpoint alone. That's why the sinking of the Bismarck was critical. It made Hitler even more gunshy to use his assets and thus eliminated a threat that the Allies did not have to accountr for as vigorously as they had too.


332 posted on 04/16/2005 11:50:27 PM PDT by DarthVader (Liberal Democrat = Fat, drunk and stupid is a hell of a way to go through life)
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