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To: jwh_Denver

I understand what you are saying, but I think it goes beyond just the grave. While I agree with your thoughts about "the grave", hell is a place without the presence of God and for that reason, a place of torment.

While it is a fact that no one wants to suffer, it is the love of God that reached out to us so that none of us would have to spend eternity without God. Christ died for ALL. He offers salvation to "whoever will come". Motivated by love, He sacrificed while we were in rebellion against Him so that we could enter a loving relationship with him. This is the most inclusive belief I know of.

Even rats leave a sinking ship - they say. Those rats are not changed from the inside out. They don't become anything but wet rats.

In contrast, we have the opportunity to be born into God's family - not just stow away to escape a bad fate.

Anyone who wants nothing to do with God will someday get their wish. That will indeed be hell. It will be freely chosen by them, but they won't like their choice.

People can debate about the scriptural imagery of hell and whether the flames are real or symbolic - and we'd miss the point. It is the absolute lack of the presence of God - of all that's ultimately good. The isolation, despair, loneliness and misery that makes it a place of torment and suffering. Any real flames would pale in comparison to that suffering. So I agree, they shouldn't be the message.

It is the love of God. The sacrifice of God to reconcile us to Him that is the most important thing.

I wish all that love. For all need it desperately. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. From the average guy on the street, to the Pope. And there is nothing we can do through works to go to heaven. It is all grace. The unearned grace of God. A free gift to us that was the most costly ever given. And all we have to do is receive it by faith.

best, ampu


1,277 posted on 04/23/2005 8:10:09 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

"It is all grace. The unearned grace of God. A free gift to us that was the most costly ever given. And all we have to do is receive it by faith."

So beautiful. Sometimes when I know I have sinned the words "stand firmly in the grace we have been given" come to mind. I didn't earn nor could I have, it was a gift that I am supposed to stand in and enjoy. Such is our God who loves to give so we can praise and adore Him with all our hearts.

Beautiful post.


1,279 posted on 04/23/2005 8:18:33 AM PDT by jwh_Denver (The Good News of the Gospel of Christ really is Good News!)
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