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To: WRhine
the government’s eternal desire for a new compliant underclass

Ah, finally we expose ourselves. One thing you discover as you get a little older is that there isn't any grand conspiracy. People muddle through life (even execs at those big bad corporations) with barely any control over their home life.

The open borders policy is a result of lack of political will - it's how it's always worked throughout history. One can easily imagine the same dabate raging through Rome as the city filled with immigrants throughout the Empire.

The first stage is necessity: we really did need around 1m or so illegals to do the dirty work. Then the group gains limited political power - not themselves directly, but via politicians and others who hate the status quo. Then the numbers increase to such an extent that it is fait accompli.

That's where we're at today. If the biggest, richest state couldn't stop it 13 years ago, why would anyone imagine that it can be stopped now?

Here's a little advice: don't worry, be happy. Take a look at Rio, Mexico City, Lima, et al. Figure out a way to be part of the upper class - it shouldn't be too hard.

310 posted on 04/13/2005 8:04:16 AM PDT by lemura
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To: lemura
Here's a little advice: don't worry, be happy. Take a look at Rio, Mexico City, Lima, et al. Figure out a way to be part of the upper class - it shouldn't be too hard.

I guess I'd better start practicing to become a street musician, cause I'm no good at racketeering, political assasination, drug running & graft.

312 posted on 04/13/2005 9:06:58 AM PDT by skeeter ("What's to talk about? It's illegal." S Bono)
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To: lemura
Ah, finally we expose ourselves. One thing you discover as you get a little older is that there isn't any grand conspiracy.

No grand conspiracy. Where did I suggest that? Governments invariably seek reasons for their existence and to grow. Environments where a society is stable and prosperous are not conductive to governmental power and growth over and above economic and population growth. It's really human nature at work here.

It’s been my long held belief that formalized, organized, conspiracies where people meet in secret to plot some insidious scheme are quite rare in the world. Always have been. Most groups/movements that are associated with conspiracies are really liked-minded people, with shared interests, similar backgrounds and similar ideologies working towards common goals--usually economic and political. This is more akin to the phenomenon of how fish school together when they are on the hunt for forage. But, it doesn't mean that the objectives and actions of such groups are not seditious, sinister, unconstitutional, treasonous or otherwise criminal.

The open borders policy is a result of lack of political will - it's how it's always worked throughout history. One can easily imagine the same dbate raging through Rome as the city filled with immigrants throughout the Empire.

I agree there. Observe though that the Roman Civilization lasted some 800 years. No small feat. So it’s not like their empire came tumbling down as soon at they became the most powerful people on the planet and got their first taste of wealth. It took centuries before the seeds of their destruction were planted and brought them down. When the Romans were unified, focused and disciplined they had little trouble defending their empire from outside tribes.

That's where we're at today. If the biggest, richest state couldn't stop it 13 years ago, why would anyone imagine that it can be stopped now?

You have to ask yourself how America was ever able to protect itself from foreign invasion for better than 200 years. What's changed?

If, for example, America's institutions and governmental apparatus were not heavily infiltrated by socialists/marxists over the last say 60 years or so, would America have much of a problem controlling its borders? I don’t think so. If this cr*p happened during the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s (see Eisenhower) and 60s the U.S. government would have sent the military down to the border, rounded up the Illegals and told Mexico if they did not cease encouraging their people to invade America we’d take them over.

One the defining points where things started to go off track in this nation was the passage of the 1966 Immigration Act sponsored by “the Swimmer” which opened up America to large scale 3rd World immigration for the first time in its history. What would have happened IF that legislation was never passed? Would the crisis of illegal immigration be as bad as it is today? In retrospect, that misguided Act was the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent.

I'll say this: success breeds prosperity, which breeds complacency, which breeds neglect and eventual destruction. We are at the latter stages of complacency right now IMO. You may be right that the die is cast and nothing can stop the nation altering immigration wave. The MMP though is evidence that there is still a lot of fight left in many Americans. I’ve been looking for just such positive event for a long time. I wouldn’t write off this country just yet.

313 posted on 04/13/2005 10:06:14 AM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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