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To: MWS

Just out curiosity what do you against female priests other than it not being tradition.

BTW non-practicing catholic moved very much by recent events and will actually be going to Mass today


34 posted on 04/08/2005 8:42:01 AM PDT by Ignatius J Reilly
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To: Ignatius J Reilly
Just out curiosity what do you against female priests other than it not being tradition.

There are good reasons, both theological and practical.

Just this morning on EWTN's morning mass the priest (I wish I knew his name) gave an excellent homily on this subject.

41 posted on 04/08/2005 9:00:58 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: Ignatius J Reilly

I am glad to hear you will be attending Mass.

The only answer I can provide for your question is that "Tradition" is not merely a manmade way of preserving that which has always been done. Instead, it is the fundamental way in which Catholic doctrine is passed along through the ages. It is the very essence of the Church. Scripture itself is part of Tradition - in fact, it was in part because the writings that constitute the New Testament reflected the teachings of Tradition that they were considered canonical in the first place. Other books that claimed to have been written by apostles but did not match the teachings of Church Tradition were thrown out. Tradition is that important.

Thus, we must hesistate when asked to consider changes that conflict with Tradition, not out of a mere desire to stay "loyal to the past" but rather out of a need to remain faithful to the institutions created by Christ. The Church does not merely hold that it is "wrong" to consecrate a woman, but rather that it is incapable of doing so in the first place.

Every sacrament requires proper matter, form, and intent. Matter is the physical aspect of a sacrament, such as bread and wine for the Eucharist, water for Baptism, and oil for the Annointing of the Sick. Form is the rituals and actions connected to the matter. Intent is the will in the minister of the sacrament to do what the Church does.

The matter for the Sacrament of Holy Orders (consecration) is a baptised male. The matter of any sacrament is defined in a precise way. According to Catholic theology, a female is not proper matter for the sacrament. To allow the ordination of women involves a fundamental change in Catholic theology as it has been defined throughout the centuries, and basically presumes an error in a matter where the Church is presumed infallible. Thus, Catholics such as myself oppose the ordination of women because it is in contradiction to the defined doctrine of our Church.

I hope this answers your question to some degree.


42 posted on 04/08/2005 9:21:42 AM PDT by MWS (Errare humanum est, in errore perservare stultum.)
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To: Ignatius J Reilly
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
Pope John Paul II
Apostolic Letter On Reserving Priestly Ordination To Men Alone

1. Priestly Ordination, which hands on the office entrusted by Christ to his Apostles of teaching, sanctifying, and governing the faithful, has in the Catholic Church from the beginning always been reserved to men alone. This tradition has also been faithfully maintained by the Oriental Churches.

When the question of the ordination of women arose in the Anglican Communion, Pope Paul VI, out of fidelity to his office of safeguarding the Apostolic Tradition, and also with a view to removing a new obstacle placed in the way of Christian unity, reminded Anglicans of the position of the Catholic Church: "She holds that it is not admissible to ordain women to the priesthood, for very fundamental reasons. These reasons include: the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles only from among men; the constant practice of the Church, which has imitated Christ in choosing only men; and her living teaching authority which has consistently held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God's plan for his Church."[1]

But since the question had also become the subject of debate among theologians and in certain Catholic circles, Paul VI directed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to set forth and expound the teaching of the Church on this matter. This was done through the Declaration <Inter Insigniores>, which the Supreme Pontiff approved and ordered to be published.[2]

2. The Declaration recalls and explains the fundamental reasons for this teaching, reasons expounded by Paul VI, and concludes that the Church "does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination."[3] To these fundamental reasons the document adds other theological reasons which illustrate the appropriateness of the divine provision, and it also shows clearly that Christ's way of acting did not proceed from sociological or cultural motives peculiar to his time. As Paul VI later explained: "The real reason is that, in giving the Church her fundamental constitution, her theological anthropology—thereafter always followed by the Church's Tradition—Christ established things in this way."[4]

In the Apostolic Letter <Mulieris Dignitatem>, I myself wrote in this regard: "In calling only men as his Apostles, Christ acted in a completely free and sovereign manner. In doing so, he exercised the same freedom with which, in all his behaviour, he emphasized the dignity and the vocation of women, without conforming to the prevailing customs and to the traditions sanctioned by the legislation of the time."[5]

In fact, the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan: Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. <Mk> 3:13-14; <Jn> 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (<Acts> 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. <Lk> 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,[6] the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church (cf. <Rev> 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. <Mt> 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; <Mk> 3:13- 16; 16:14-15). The Apostles did the same when they chose fellow workers[7] who would succeed them in their ministry.[8] Also included in this choice were those who, throughout the time of the Church, would carry on the Apostles' mission of representing Christ the Lord and Redeemer.[9]

3. Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of the universe.

The presence and the role of women in the life and mission of the Church, although not linked to the ministerial priesthood, remain absolutely necessary and irreplaceable. As the Declaration <Inter Insigniores> points out, "the Church desires that Christian women should become fully aware of the greatness of their mission; today their role is of capital importance both for the renewal and humanization of society and for the rediscovery by believers of the true face of the Church".[10]

The New Testament and the whole history of the Church give ample evidence of the presence in the Church of women, true disciples, witnesses to Christ in the family and in society, as well as to total consecration to the service of God and of the Gospel. "By defending the dignity of women and their vocation, the Church has shown honour and gratitude for those women who—faithful to the Gospel—have shared in every age in the apostolic mission of the whole People of God. They are the holy martyrs, virgins, and the mothers of families, who bravely bore witness to their faith and passed on the Church's faith and tradition by bringing up their children in the spirit of the Gospel".[11]

Moreover, it is to the holiness of the faithful that the hierarchical structure of the Church is totally ordered. For this reason, the Declaration <Inter Insigniores> recalls: "the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (cf. <1 Cor> 12 and 13). The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints".[12]

4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. <Lk> 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable Brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my Apostolic Blessing.

From the Vatican, on 22 May, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.

NOTES

1. Paul VI, <Response to the Letter of His Grace the Most Reverend Dr. F. D. Coggan, Archbishop of Canterbury, concerning the Ordination of Women to the Priesthood> (30 November 1975): <AAS> 68 (1976), 599.

2. Cf. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration <Inter Insigniores> on the Question of the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood (15 October 1976): <AAS> 69 (1977), 98-116.

3. <Ibid.>, 100.

4. Paul VI, <Address on the Role of Women in the Plan of Salvation (30 January 1977): <Insegnamenti>, XV (1977), 111. Cf. also John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation <Christifideles Laici> (30 December 1988), 31: <AAS> 81 (1989), 393-521; <Catechism of the Catholic Church>, No. 1577.

5. Apostolic Letter <Mulieris Dignitatem> (15 August 1988), 26; <AAS> 80 (1988), 1715.

6. Cf. Dogmatic Constitution <Lumen Gentium>, 28; Decree <Presbyterorum Ordinis>, 2b.

7 Cf. <1 Tim> 3:1-13; <2 Tim> 1:6; <Tit> 1:5-9.

8 Cf. <Catechism of the Catholic Church>, No. 1577.

9 Cf. Dogmatic Constitution on the Church <Lumen Gentium>, 20, 21.

10 Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration <Inter Insigniores>, 6: <AAS> 69 (1977), 115-116.

11 Apostolic Letter <Mulieris Dignitatem>, 27: <AAS> 80 (1988), 1719.

12 Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration <Inter Insigniores>, 6: <AAS> 69 (1977), 115.


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57 posted on 04/09/2005 1:53:19 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Ignatius J Reilly; MWS; little jeremiah
The commandment against women being priests:
(From the King James Bible)
1 Corinthians 14

14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the
prophets.


14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as
in all churches of the saints.

14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not
permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be
under obedience, as also saith the law.

14:35

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their
husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in
the church.

14:36
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto
you only?

14:37

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual,
let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto
you are the commandments of the Lord

61 posted on 04/10/2005 1:39:19 AM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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