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To: PetroniusMaximus
False worship, the true worship of God and Marian veneration all look exactly the same from the outside - the manin thing that differs is the object of worship.

There's no objective difference between Protestant worship of God and Catholic Marian veneration, I'll grant.

That's not because there's something wrong with Marian veneration, that's because Protestant worship is not true worship of God. Singing pretty songs and hearing a speech isn't worship. It might be a nice teaching opportunity, but worship, it isn't. Authentic worship requires sacrifice, and a priesthood, and the only sacrifice that matters is Calvary. Your Protestant creeds expressly deny that you do any such thing: you stand convicted by your own words.

The problem is not that Catholics venerate Mary. The problem is that you don't really worship God, and don't really know what the true worship of God looks like.

95 posted on 04/07/2005 9:59:37 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
That's not because there's something wrong with Marian veneration, that's because Protestant worship is not true worship of God.

That is as ridiculous as those that dismiss catholics out of hand as nothing but cultists.

110 posted on 04/07/2005 10:04:14 AM PDT by Soul Seeker
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To: Campion
Authentic worship requires sacrifice

Christ's death was the end of sacrifice. None before were sufficient; none after were necessary. The Crucifiction was a once-for-all event; why then must Christ be sacrificed repeatedly thousands of times per day for thousands of years? and who are we to thrust His sacrifice upon Him again and again?

129 posted on 04/07/2005 10:11:45 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Campion

***That's not because there's something wrong with Marian veneration, that's because Protestant worship is not true worship of God.***

What then is this "true worship" of which you speak? Incence and bells? Jesus said those that worship God must do so in spirit and truth.




***Authentic worship requires sacrifice, and a priesthood, and the only sacrifice that matters is Calvary. ***

There was one sacrifice. It is past tense. We look back to it as the OT saints looked forward to it. Jesus blood was shed ONCE for the forgiveness of sins. It is not repeated a thousand times a day all over the world.

"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." - Heb 10


How could it be more clear...???

"once for all",

"priests...offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins"

"a single sacrifice"

"a single offering he has perfected for all time "


178 posted on 04/07/2005 10:33:59 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Campion
It might be a nice teaching opportunity, but worship, it isn't.

That is very profound insight, and one rarely noted.

It was precisely the reason for my conversion some twenty plus years ago. I believe it is the driving force in most conversions, of course there are frivolous ones as well.

Our gift of worship must however (IMHO) not be neglected. My dear wife's greatest concern, for example, is the way in which reverence for the the Eucharist is not being instilled in the children placed in our care.

267 posted on 04/07/2005 11:11:30 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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