Text of Pope's Last Will and Testament

Associated Press ^ | April 7, 2005 | Associated Press

[Lady Heron]

I am sorry you think I hate Catholics, because I do not, not even a little bit. There is a big difference in hatred and discussing doctrine, and I usually do not get into it with Catholics because I think that we have more in common and will need each other than not.

But, like I said I felt I had to say something about a very unBiblical doctrine in a week that is I felt strongly was not about Protestants in the least and should be left to Catholics. I tried to leave the thread and had to follow the call of my heart to say something, it would have been unfaithful not to.

Like I said before do with it what you will but I do not hate Catholics in the least, my only reason for responding to you openly when I had already said I was done. Nor do I think do any others that were upset by that statement.

Besides that is how the left shuts off all conversation on any subject by calling the other side hatefilled when all we do is discuss policy. I have never been a big fan of shutting off conversation before it starts by belittling the other side instead of defending with a good argument. Just find my the Bible verse that supports this doctrine fully and I will agree with you it is not blasphemy.

[BigSkyFreeper]

All I am saying is, that it doesn't require a single person to read the Bible 1 or 100 times. If one can understand the Bible from cover to cover the first go around, amen. I will admit I have yet to read it cover to cover, but what I have read, I can fully understand, even if I have to use Bible study aids (online or my local pastor) to help me reach that point of understanding.

That's all God wants, is for each one of us to "get into the Word", and understand The Word. We do that, then everything else falls into place.

[Chili Girl]

bump for later read

[lastchance]

Mary is given the title Mother of God to refute the Nestorian heresy that Jesus is not God. It affirms that Jesus was truly God and truly man. It affirms the Holy Trintiy- that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[BigSkyFreeper]

Notice he did not say I and my mother are one. If you are claiming Mary is the mother of God then that by definition places her in a position above GOD himself.

Jesus represented God in the flesh.

[Republican in CA]

Yes, I think you and I agree. MineralMan was holding up the standard of being a Bible scholar, which would mean, frankly, that almost none of us would be able to discuss scripture, because most of us will probably never make it to the level of a scholar.

Love God above all things, and love your neighbor as yourself. On these hang the Law and the Prophets.

[onyx]

Well thank goodness for that.
My comment addressed the short-shrift that this
particular article gave to JPII's magnificent,
prayerful 15 hand written pages that spanned
the years from 1979-2000.

[CompSciGuy]

Yup in most cases the Jews were systematically evicted by the Kings. See Edward I, 1290 he kicks the Jews out of England, 1490 Ferdinand and Isabella. Sorry to burst your RCC rant but the secular authorities did far more harm than the Church ever did. But then again your insurmountable circumstantial evidence is just more than my mere historical facts can prove /sarcasm.

Cheers,

CSG

[conservonator]

Wasn't it you who once posted "scratch a maryphobe and find a heretic"?

[conservonator]

That's exactly the point SD is making :)

[Dog Gone]

Since the Pope's last writing does not reveal the "Secret Cardinal", is that person still a cardinal?

[D-fendr]

Thank you for posting the information on the painting. I didn't know of the painting at Jasna Gora until now.

For those interested, more information is here.

[ctdonath2]

Someone being nailed to a tree, and someone else eating a wafer, strike me as plainly two distinctly separate events.

[hosepipe]

[ Sorry to burst your RCC rant but the secular authorities did far more harm than the Church ever did. But then again your insurmountable circumstantial evidence is just more than my mere historical facts can prove /sarcasm. ]

True kinda, but what was secular and what was church rode a bumpy ride.. during those times.. the "church" and the "rulers" and few Kings used each other like siblings and cousins in a Tennessee love triangle.. what was secular and what was church blended like a finely crafted salad dressing.. and people munched like rabbits.. as you do..
< irony >

[BigSkyFreeper]

The Last Supper and the Crucifixion were two distinctly different events but they were both connected. Jesus hinted through the eating of the bread and drinking of the wine, that he would sacrifice his flesh and blood for all.

[jamesissmall218]

You're simply not using the correct definition of worship. By its definition, you CAN NOT worship something that is not a divine being. Mary is not divine - she is human. Therefore she cannot, nor is she, worshipped.

[D-fendr]

Perhaps you are looking at it too plainly?

This plain view of communion was not seen until relatively recently. Communion, perhaps, is not brought into plain view.

[BigSkyFreeper]

Right. She has no mystical powers, as one poster eluded to.

[CompSciGuy]

And where is this documentation? You cite nothing to prove your argument. Or are you the last living gentle from the middle ages? Much of what the Secular leadership did in the Middle Ages was /not/ sanctioned by the Church. The Popes consistently tried to stop the wars that various Kings perpetrated. Also the Popes were at odds with Kings, namely because Kings felt themselves to be better arbiters of religion than the Pope. This can be seen in the clash between the Pope and the German Emperors. The mixing of church and secular was not the case as you think it is. The clergy had their own laws and were tried in their own courts. The Kings had their own law, and were not allowed to try the clergy. They were quite separate, but there was a juxtaposition of power.

Just because you think it was some homogenized class of people doesn't mean it really was. I'm not going to even take offense to your snide inference, I've tried to educate your little mind, and apparently you refuse. Next time read a book or two before you decide to formulate an opinion then you might actually understand what you are talking about. Oh yes, also forgot, facts are your friends, without them you sound very DUmb.

Cheers,

CSG

[MineralMan]

Bravo! (or Brava!, as the case may be.)