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Wal-Mart Denounces Health Bill
washington post ^ | 4-7-05 | Michael Barbaro

Posted on 04/07/2005 5:45:29 AM PDT by TXBSAFH

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To: NormalGuy

I agree entirely. Good post


161 posted on 04/07/2005 12:41:06 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: A. Pole
I grew up in Communist Poland and I assure you that waiting was NOT longer than US.

Congratulations on your homeland achieving freedom. (I'm Polish on my father's side)

I've heard reports from Canada (socialized medicine), Britain (cosialized medicine) and countless other places with socialized medicine of long waits for what are considered routine services here.

I'd rather stay with our system of market driven health care and leave the socialized medicine to the socialists and other communists.

162 posted on 04/07/2005 12:45:42 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: A. Pole
If you really want small government then you need to reduce federal government, to move power to the states (like before Civil War), and reduce the military to the minimum - no more foreign bases, Star Wars or interventions.

Actually defense is one of the few legitimate purposes for the federal gov in the USA. We can cut all the liberal feel good social junk and increase the military budget and still decrease the size of government

163 posted on 04/07/2005 12:47:20 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Steve_Seattle
If some people here had their way, we'd all still be working 80 hour weeks for $1.00 an hour, living in rat-infested, fire-trap tenements, and owing our soul to the company store.

No. If we had our way the company would have the right to establish those conditions for their employees IF AND ONLY IF the employees agreed to them. Of course the company would then get exactly what they were paying for and the company would fail (due to having inept/incompetent employees). Market force would drive any company that wants to survive to pay a suitable wage for the work they were getting.

In most cases Walmart pays exactly the right wage. Unskilled shelf stockers aren't really worth much and there are always more people who will voluntarily work for that wage doing that work.

You make a point about McDonalds paying $10/hour for burger flippers etc. Flipping burgers is not worth $10/hour. Why force the companay to pay more than the work is worth?

The labor market determines what the work is worth. In some locales it may be worth more as no one will flip burgers for less money. In some locales it may be worth much less. Let the market drive wages and you'll always be right

164 posted on 04/07/2005 12:56:18 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: excalibur1701
We don't want Wal-Mart in our community, yet, they keep trying to bully their way in.

I see no evidence from your link that they are trying to bully their way in. I see that they haven't found the correct site yet but no effort to force their way in.

Besides that, if they manage to buy the land and it is properly zoned why shouldn't they be allowed to build on it? It would be their land after all

165 posted on 04/07/2005 1:03:15 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; Revelation 911; TXBSAFH
Would Wal Mart health care workers get health care ?

Wal Mart offers excellent health care (better than my plan) for all their full time employees. What the State of Maryland apparently wants to do is to force Wal Mart to provide health care to all their part time employees as well. Just about any employee who wants to work full time (and is willing to work) can land a full time job. Most part timers are part timers by choice.

Wal Mart's biggest sin appears to be that they provide their customers with what they want at the price they want to pay fo it. It is amazing how many so-called conservatives on this site are willing to authorize a soviet style government intrusion into private enterprise when the private enterprise is "too big for its britches."

I am much more afraid of that kind of attitude than I am of Wal Mart's growth plans. If Maryland can dictate to Wal Mart about how much they pay and who to give health insurance to, they can dictate to Mom and Pop. And Mom and Pop don't have the lawyers to stop them.

Anyone who favors the state of Maryland over Wal Mart on this issue is, IMO, a closet communist.

166 posted on 04/07/2005 1:05:53 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: John O
"Flipping burgers is not worth $10/hour. Why force the companay to pay more than the work is worth?"

You talk is if the value of particular kinds of work is written in nature. Basically, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, no matter how much others might disagree. I don't think Bill Clinton is worth $50,000 a speech (or whatever his fee is), but as long as he asks for it and people are willing to pay it, I guess that's what its worth. As for burger flippers not being worth $10/hour, if they raised the wages to that level and people still bought burgers, then they WOULD be worth $10/hour. Somebody will pay $100,000 for one of Babe Ruth's bats, others will think it's stupid. What is the bat really worth? That's a metaphysical question.
167 posted on 04/07/2005 1:15:34 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: excalibur1701
"Wow...I wasn't expecting so much flack."

This is just another skirmish in the ongoing battle between different views of conservatism. Not all conservatives view conservatism through the prism of laissez-faire capitalism. Speaking for myself, I come to it from a background in Catholicism, where social conservatism mixes with a belief in a social safety net and decent wages. So I'm against abortion, against gay marriage, pro-Constitution, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-American sovereignty, pro-strong military, but unwilling to defend all the business practices of corporations (or small business, for that matter).
168 posted on 04/07/2005 1:27:04 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle
You talk is if the value of particular kinds of work is written in nature. Basically, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, no matter how much others might disagree.

Exactly correct. And right now in most locales the market says that burger flippers are not worth $10/hour.

As for burger flippers not being worth $10/hour, if they raised the wages to that level and people still bought burgers, then they WOULD be worth $10/hour.

Depends on who raised the wage. If the company decided to pay their burger flippers $10/hr then to the company (the consumer of the labor) they would be worth that.

If the gov decided to raise the wage then the company is being taxed on labor that is not worth that amount. They either submit to the gov blackmail and pay it or go out of business. They will raise their prices to account for it but will never see it as being worth that much.

The end result of this option is cutting benefits or firing some workers so they can afford to keep the others. Of course entry level workers are now never hired because they don't have the skills to be worth the new government imposed entry level wage. Automation becomes very attractive as personnel costs are out of line with what the personnel are worth. Workers suffer, consumers suffer, company suffers (briefly). Everyone loses when wages are established by government decree

You are so close but seem to have difficulty understanding that the market is the only proper place to determine the worth of labor (or anything else for that matter)

169 posted on 04/07/2005 1:32:20 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Steve_Seattle
What is the bat really worth? That's a metaphysical question.

Sorry. missed this.

The market will determine exactly, to the penny, what Babe Ruth's bat is worth.

If you want to determine the exact value of a commodity such as labor, eliminate all price supports and let the market reveal what it's real value is.

170 posted on 04/07/2005 1:34:12 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: 2banana
Five years from now, journalists will wonder why Maryland has an unemployment rate double her neighbor states...

To add insult to injury, they'll claim it was Bush's fault...

171 posted on 04/07/2005 1:35:38 PM PDT by GOPJ (Liberals haven't had a new idea in 40 years.)
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To: John O
I've heard reports from Canada (socialized medicine), Britain (cosialized medicine) and countless other places with socialized medicine of long waits for what are considered routine services here.

Long wait is most common for the selective procedures. Also I heard stories about waiting here in US. The final objective results in America like life expectancy etc are not the best. But the cost is the highest in the world!

I'd rather stay with our system of market driven health care and leave the socialized medicine to the socialists and other communists.

Neither UK, nor Canada nor France nor Japan are Communist countries. Believe me.

172 posted on 04/07/2005 1:38:42 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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To: John O
Actually defense is one of the few legitimate purposes for the federal gov in the USA.

Huge standing army involved in the most of the world is not what is compatible with a free republic as the ancient Romans learned. But it good for the Empire.

173 posted on 04/07/2005 1:40:35 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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To: TXBSAFH

Perhaps WalMart should just take its jobs to another state. Apparently, Maryland doesn't want them there.


174 posted on 04/07/2005 1:42:23 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: John O
The market will determine exactly, to the penny, what Babe Ruth's bat is worth.

The market is your god. But it is a false god - an idol.

175 posted on 04/07/2005 1:43:29 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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To: Steve_Seattle
Government regulation isn't really the way to improve the lot in life of workers. Although I'm not a fan of unions, they did contribute greatly to improving work life, even for non-union people. Problem is, they got so powerful, they got lazy and greedy, driving many companies out of business or forcing them to take their jobs elsewhere.

I still think workers banding together is the way to go. But for that to remain successful, the workers also have to hold each other accountable for proper behavior (such as actually working the whole 8 hours, not stealing from the company, and so forth).

176 posted on 04/07/2005 1:47:09 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: John O

It's real simple for you to say, yet, if they decide to build in your back yard, then I'm sure it would be a simple story.

How would you like to be woken up every morning with the sounds of "beeping" as the Wal-mart trucks backup into their loading dock. Or, depending on your side of the store, the constant slamming of customer car doors during their 24 hour operations.

I have a right to keep my property value up, and not have it plummet if they would have succeeded in building.


177 posted on 04/07/2005 1:47:40 PM PDT by excalibur1701
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To: A. Pole
"Neither UK, nor Canada nor France nor Japan are Communist countries. Believe me."

Japan and UK, I can agree. Not so sure about France and Canada.

178 posted on 04/07/2005 1:48:31 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: excalibur1701
We don't want Wal-Mart in our community, yet, they keep trying to bully their way in.

Who is "we"? If *nobody* wanted a Walmart in your community, then they wouldn't be trying to "bully" their way in because it wouldn't be profitable. Rather it appears that some people *would* prefer to have a Walmart, but you would prefer to use government force to deny it to them.

179 posted on 04/07/2005 1:53:20 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent (These pretzels are making me thirsty)
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To: A. Pole
The market is your god.

Nope, it just works a heck of a lot better than central planning.

180 posted on 04/07/2005 1:54:17 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent (These pretzels are making me thirsty)
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