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To: TotusTuus
since it was through her freely spoken fiat that Christ came to us

Ah..so Christ came through Mary's word, eh? Funny, I thought God sent Him.

Sorry...you seem full of contradictions. First you say Catholics only pray "with" Mary, then you admit that they actually ask for her help which is not praying "with" but "to" her.

Then you actually say that Christ came through Mary's word, even though trying to deny that you grant her undue esteem.

Lots of twists and turns.

78 posted on 04/06/2005 2:28:40 AM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up
Ah..so Christ came through Mary's word, eh? Funny, I thought God sent Him.

Yes God sent His Son into the world… through the consent of His mother. God never destroys our freedom, and this was true of Mary as well during the Annunciation (the feast day of which was celebrated on Monday in the Church). The Incarnation of Christ began at her consenting to God’s plan as spoken to her through the angel Gabriel. Her “Yes” can be seen as a secondary cause of the Incarnation relative to God’s primary causality.

Look at it this way, if I ask you who wrote the Gospel of St. Matthew, is it not fair to say that it is the inspired Word of God primarily, but also the work of St. Matthew as God’s chosen active instrument? No need to create a false dichotomy between having to choose between God and Matthew in an either/or situation when the answer is a both/and result.

Sorry...you seem full of contradictions. First you say Catholics only pray "with" Mary, then you admit that they actually ask for her help which is not praying "with" but "to" her.

I have admitted already that in everyday parlance one will often say ‘to’ as opposed to ‘with’. Getting caught up in word games isn’t the goal here. The reality for Catholics is that all prayer is always and ultimately directed to God, and at times through the Saints. It is in this understanding that the correct language is ‘with’ the Angels or Saints as opposed to ‘to’ the Angels or Saints. It is with this understanding that, for example, the Church has always interpreted the prayers of the Saints as described in the Apocalypse (Book of Revelation). Otherwise, it would be in conflict with other passages and Books of the Bible.

Then you actually say that Christ came through Mary's word, even though trying to deny that you grant her undue esteem.

See above. Where have I denied her “undue esteem”. If by that you mean considering her as God, yes, that is heretical. The Church has never taught such nonsense, and in fact, condemned an early heresy in Arabia that offered sacrifices to her. Personally, the esteem I have for Mary is nowhere as high as it should be. As a follower of Christ it is my (and all Christians) calling to imitate Him. This includes blessing those whom He Blesses. Who do you think He Blessed more than His own Mother?

101 posted on 04/06/2005 7:07:25 AM PDT by TotusTuus (Christos Voskrese!)
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