Protestant Theologian: He Was My Pope, Too

christianity today ^ | 04.04.05 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

[Coleus]

For the last quarter of a century, this non-Catholic has had a pope. Now that John Paul II is gone, I am even more of an orphan than the Christians in the Roman church. For they will surely have another pope, but that one may not be mine, since I haven't converted.

I am sure I am reflecting the views of many Protestants. Who else but John Paul II gave voice to my faith and my values in 130 countries? Who else posited personal holiness and theological clarity against postmodern self-deception and egotism? Who else preached the gospel as tirelessly as this man?

What other clergyman played any comparable role in bringing down communism, a godless system? What other world leader—spiritual or secular—understood so profoundly how hollow and bankrupt the Soviet empire was, so much so that this tireless writer never bothered to pen an encyclical against Marxism-Leninism because he knew it was moribund?

Has there been a more powerful defender of the sanctity of life than this Pole, in whose pontificate nearly 40 million unborn babies wound up in trashcans and furnaces in the United States alone? What more fitting insight than John Paul II's definition of our culture as a culture of death—an insight that is now clearly sinking in, to wit the declining abortion rates in the United States?

In Europe some time ago, a debate occurred in Protestant churches: Should John Paul II be considered the world's spokesman for all of Christianity? This was an absurd question. Of course he spoke for all believers. Who else had such global appeal and credibility, even to non-Christians and non-believers?

Of course, there was the inveterate Billy Graham. There were many faithful Orthodox and Protestant bishops, pastors and evangelists.

[Tribune7]

Catholics consider Mary to be the Mother of God.

And she is. :-)

[Conservative til I die]

There have been Popes I have admired but this PR man was not one of them

I pegged it at about 4 days before the Prots would be out in force with the usual drivel.

He was an ambassador for the Catholic church and for a unity without Christ.

Heh. Christ founded the Catholic Church (Check the New Testament). My money is on Christ being found in our Church, not the 27th Street South Independent Revivalist Southern West Baptist Family Church of God.

Of course, that's not to be confused with the 27th Street *NORTH* Independent Revivalist Southern West Baptist Family Church of God, or the other 26,998 Protestant sects out there (Maybe there's 27,000 different Christs?).

[D Edmund Joaquin]

since you cribbed our Bible ,

Pretty funny since it was the Jews for 4000+ years before Christ

[FreedomCalls]

Any of those blokes actually reponsible for writing Catholic docrine?

How does that matter in any way? Even if doctrine forbids it, the very fact that several million Catholics are behaving as if Mary was a diety makes the point that large numbers of Catholics worship Mary. You can't deny that it is happening by simply saying "Well, it's not official." If they do it, they do it.

[Conservative til I die]

Question: I've heard the term Anglican Catholic used before. I know that it's classified as a distinctly Anglican sect, but can you explain what is the difference -in a nutshell- between an Anglican Catholic and a regular Anglican?

[jude24]

I'll see your anecdote, and raise you. I heard on CBS Radio the other day a woman who said of JPII, "He was God's greatest gift to the world." The ignorance belied in that statement was stunning.

Still, I wouldn't critique the Roman Catholic Church for that. It's bad Catholic theology, too.

[FreedomCalls]

So you don't believe in the immortal soul?

//jumping in//

Of course I do, but I still don't ask for them to pray for me. I pray to Jesus directly.

[Conservative til I die]

That's right. This started out as a thread of adoration, and about the inclusion of certain protestants who don't find the leadership he brought in the "do-it-yourself" protestant world. The attackers immediately started coming in over the walls. TF reminds me of the deathrats.

Because if they didn't attack us, the Pope, our beliefs, and our Church, they'd have nothing in their faith. Do you really ever hear Fundamentalists talking about charity, good works, things like that? This is what happens when you don't have saints to look up to and believe all you have to do is say "I believe" and you're saved forever and ever. It leaves you isolated, with absolutely nothing to do religiously, so a boogeyman has to be found.

[Binghamton_native]

Here is a sketch of what I believe could be the elements of a dialogue between Roman Catholics (RC) and Evangelical/Charismatic Protestants (E/C P):
1) E/C P listen to RC as to what they say they believe on these divisive issues and not what they think the RC believes.
2) RC ease up on statements such as: The One True Church, etc. See item 1
3) RC emphasize personal faith. It appears to E/C P that some RC place higher priority on organizational faith than personal faith.

I as an evangelical protestant believe we have more in common that what divides us. We both believe in the Triune God, the Virgin Birth, the atoning work of the blood of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, the Resurrection, the bodily ascension of Christ, etc. It is important in this so-called post-Christian age that we stop beating each other up on the type of issues that have been discussed on this thread.

God Bless

[FreedomCalls]

Isn't that a Jehovah's Witness belief, that there is no soul?

Isn't ancestor worship Confucianism?

[malakhi]

I don't think they confuse the written word with YHWH Himself.

Affirmative, Dave. God is much bigger than a book. Even if that book is the Bible.

[Conservative til I die]

You guys rightly love your Pope and should be grieving for him, not fighting with others.

Then maybe the Fundies need to screw off for a week or two, instead of trying to provoke arguments.

I knew they couldn't keep their ignorant traps shut for long. I knew this was coming because not one of the usual suspects even made a post having to do with the Pope's death until the last day or so. Not even a polite condolences.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

If you read the whole thread, you will understand my definition of the Torah. Unfortunately, most, both Catholics and Protestants, are incapable of grasping the Jewish concept

[texasflower]

You are being quite confrontational. Perhaps you would like to set a good and loving example.

[Conservative til I die]

We do not come from different belief systems.

Of course we do. Otherwise we wouldn't call ourselves by different names. Either we'd all be Episcopalians or all Catholics. And for Catholics, we don't believe that there are "trivial" differences between the sects. If you believe homosexuality is OK or that abortion is not really a sin, then we can have no common ground. For us, ideas about life, murder, sin, they are all eternal, objective truths not subject to the times. It's not like we're arguing over the color of vestments or when to light candles.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Would it surprise you that I think most of the catholics who post on FR are extremely nice and sweet people? I said most

[Conservative til I die]

You need to back off.

When Protestants stop trying to ankle-bite the Catholic Church.

[Conservative til I die]

Pretty funny since it was the Jews for 4000+ years before Christ

The "Bible" consists of both New and Old Testament.

As far as I know, the Jews don't exactly recognize the New Testament.

[FreedomCalls]

There's a lot of pressure from a lot of people to do all kinds of things.

So you admit that there are "a lot" of Catholics who currently worship Mary and who are putting pressure to establish this in Catholic doctrine.

[texasflower]

I think they are as well.