[murphE]

I think you are getting way off track. The title of this thread is "But What made him Great?", and we were discussing UUS, not Lumen Gentium, or the CCC. (But by the way, the CCC is a lot of wasted paper of nuance and 'on the other hand' stuff, for clarity of doctrine the Roman or the Baltimore are far superior) and I asked why be Catholic specifically in regard to the words in UUS.

So you agree that it is unclear, but you say it's the same as Traditional teaching, but if it's unclear I guess then the answer to my question #3

"Do you really believe that clarifies Traditional Catholic doctrine?"

is no. Do you know people on this very forum speak of "JPII's teaching" as if it is apart from Catholic teaching, and these are Catholics.

They think John Paul II has changed Church teaching regarding salvation and the necessity of belonging to the Catholic Church.

That's unfortunate.

Yeah too bad for them, but don't lose any sleep over it. What's a few lost souls? [roll eyes]. He did not teach clearly, he perpetuated the spread of doctrinal confusion, he scandalized the world with Assisi, as well as other actions I will not list, and people want to make him a saint and give him the title of "The Great"? My, just like the world, how low our standards have become.

[gbcdoj]

Well, I am not one of the "santo subito" people, so I will not dispute your post except to point out that the Roman Catechism is not even intended for laity, and the Baltimore is not always clearer - the CCC is much better on grace, for instance.