Posted on 03/27/2005 3:35:52 PM PST by Marguerite
Well, the day has finally arrived. I now find myself in agreement with the Secretary General of the Arab League.
Recently, at the end of the Arab League Summit, Amr Mussa declared that peace could not arrive until there was withdrawal from occupied territories, the creation of another state, and the return of refugees.
He's basically correct. So what if he got a few details mixed up.
Native Copts in Egypt -- millions of them-- had their country overrun by conquering, settling, and subjugating Arabs.
To this day, they never know when the next murder will occur, the next church will be burned down, and have learned that to survive they must consent to the forced Arabization process. Their leaders have even written that for Israel to "get along," then it too must consent to a variation of this. Pretty pathetic... Uncle Butros instead of Uncle Tom ... but the same breed, if you know what I mean. Just imagine the worldwide outcry if Israel did this to Israeli Arabs.
Copts fleeing their native land to escape this treatment are not even safe. Recently, Muslim Arabs brutally murdered a Copt who dared to disagree with them here in the States.
The majority Berber population of North Africa saw its lands overrun as well over the past centuries by conquering, settling, and subjugating Arab hordes creating Arab empires.
Imperialism is evidently only nasty when non-Arabs so indulge. Berbers who dared to insist on keeping their own pre-Arab language and culture have been murdered for trying to do so. A look on any number of websites dealing with Berbers in these regards will be revealing indeed.
In 1968, Ismet Cherif Vanly wrote The Syrian Mein Kampf Against The Kurds (Amsterdam). A Kurdish nationalist, he described the murderous and brutal Arabization policies Syrian settling, conquering, and occupying Arabs employed against Kurds who predated them in the land by thousands of years. Settling, conquering, and occupying Iraqi Arabs did likewise to Mesopotamia's ancient native Kurds (the Hurrians, Guti, Kassites, and Medes of old), Assyrians, and other non-Arab peoples as well --Jews included.
Literally millions of native African Blacks have been butchered, maimed, enslaved, turned into refugees (all of this still going on today), seen their lands forcibly Arabized, and such. And not just in the Sudan.
Half of Israel's almost six million Jews originated in the "Arab"/Muslim World. They too predated the Arabs in many of those lands that they were forced to flee as refugees, leaving far more property and valuables behind than Arabs who fled in the opposite direction after the latter's brethren invaded a reborn Israel in 1948.
Alexandria Egypt's famous Jewish community was prominent centuries before Jesus. The Jews of Iraq had been there at least since the days of the Babylonian Captivity and Nebuchadnezzar. The Jews of Yemen were on the Arabian Peninsula before Muhammad was born, and the latter Prophet of Islam fled Mecca to Medina, a Jewish date palm oasis on that peninsula where the Jews were still prominent when Muhammad sought refuge there during the Hijra. When they would not convert to his new faith (based largely on their own) nor accept his religio-political leadership, he butchered and enslaved them. Jews also took part in the resistance against the Arab imperial invasions of North Africa in the 7th century C.E.
So, considering Amr Mussa's above demands...
It's time that the Africans of southern Sudan gain independence from the Arabs who have butchered, subjugated, and enslaved them over the centuries--long before the hypocrites in the United Nations only recently first started to mutter anything at all about this.
It's time for thirty million truly stateless people -- the Kurds -- to finally get their sole state. They were promised one after World War I but saw it sacrificed on the altar of British petro-politics and Arab nationalism. An Arab Iraq was pieced together in its stead.
Trusting Arabs -- whether Shi'a or Sunni -- is probably not a wise decision (regardless of what Foggy Bottom says)--given the track records of Arabs of any stripe towards these people. While Arabs -- with almost two dozen states already, including one carved out of almost 80% of the original 1920 borders of "Palestine" and today called Jordan -- have an American-sponsored roadmap to help create yet another for themselves, somehow those same folks demanding justice for Arabs seem deaf, dumb, and blind regarding Kurds.
And it's time for the subjugation of North Africa's huge Berber populations to come to an end and for those folks to be able to decide if they want to remain forcibly tied to Arabs or not. If not, then why should they not get territory to create a Berber State if Arabs can get to have yet a second one carved out for themselves in "Palestine?"
You see, Mr. Musa, justice should not be exclusively for Arabs.
Unfortunately, for the Copts, not too much to offer here.? So many more will become refugees.
And the above Arabs' victims' list is by no means complete. Just ask native Christian, Semitic but pre-Arab Lebanese--as just one other example.
The hypocrisy of the conquering, racist, and subjugating Arab League is nauseating enough. That the latter, however, is widely supported in its demands on Israel by much of the rest of the world should be appalling to anyone with any semblance of fair play. I thought Dubya knew better. Unfortunately, despite his comments last April to the contrary, it now looks like I was wrong ... a cruel April Fool's joke, indeed, played on Mr. Sharon and his tiny, vulnerable country as well.
Despite all of the international pressure on it to consent to becoming a reincarnated 1938 Czechoslovakia, ready to sacrifice itself for another "peace for all time," Israel must now muster the strength to do what it must do.
The only appropriate response of Israel to all of this should be to counter offer-the Arab League peace for peace -- not consent to slowly being eroded piece-by-piece -- via the Arabs' openly admitted "Trojan Horse" destruction in stages plans. And it must free itself from the belief that it must allow Arabs to determine the rules of the road if widespread violence erupts again. Abbas' folks have said that they would support quiet only as long as Israel continues to cave in to all of their demands. And they're the "moderates."
Millions upon millions of non-Arabs became refugees because of the Arabs. Many of these people fled to America, Great Britain, Germany, and elsewhere. They're not returning to those "Arab" lands. Likewise, Arabs will have to take care of their own refugees--created in a war that they started and far fewer in number -- in the same manner.
The occupied territories Amr Musa speaks of are disputed lands -- not purely "Arab." Jews had as much or more rights to be on those lands as Arabs had. Much has been written about this, UN Resolution 242 indirectly addressed this, and leading experts such as Eugene Rostow, William O'Brien, Arthur Goldberg, Lord Caradon, and others have been quite vocal on these matters as well.
Jews have a word describing demands such as those made by Amr Musa. It's called chutzpah.
If members of the Arab League wish to create a new Middle Eastern state, then Israeli and world leaders must insist that justice should begin closer to home.
This caught my eye because I thought the headline read, "Why create just one new Mideast state when you can have a Jew?". I know that makes no sense whatsoever, but that's how I read it.
I bet your interpretation is too truthful! Funny stuff!
More semitic speaking people followed them. Wave after wave of such people spread through the Middle East for thousands of years.
Languages get supplanted you know. It's usually a kind of impersonal process. At the moment English is rapidly extirpating hundreds of ancient tongues, and nobody particularly cares. I sure don't. Do you? Spoken Arabic expanded far beyond the core population in the Early Middle Ages, just as English is doing today. Many modern Arabic speaking populations have virtually no Arabic ancestry.
Are you telling me the Copts are not semitic?
Excellent post. Thank you. It is a mystery to me why we in the West accept the title of imperialist as an appropriate yoke for the crusades yet ignore the fact that most of the lands occupied by Arabs and Muslims today were Christian over 600 years before the charlatan Muhammad perpetrated his fraud on humanity, And the modern world? I suspect Ayatollah Khomeini found the Iran/Iraq war a convenient solution to the prospect of counter-revolutionary forces arising from the masses of disenfranchised young men whose dreams he would have been forced to destroy if he were unsuccessful in gaining their willingness for insane martyrdom in the name of his vain power grab. What idiotic dupes these people are.
The Copts' ancestors where Egyptian not Arabs. They converted to Christianity 600 years before Mahommed was born.
Mohammed was born in 570 AD. Are you saying the Egyptians converted to Christianity before Christianity existed? Before Christ was born? COOL.
COPTS ARE HAMITIC NOT SEMITIC. SINCE THEY ARE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS THEY ARE HAMITES
COPTS ARE HAMITIC NOT SEMITIC. SINCE THEY ARE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS THEY ARE HAMITES
This is not about the language, but about Arabs occupying non-Arab countries and subjugating non-Arab peoples, like Kurds, Sudanese, Berbers and Copts.
You have deliberately confused the point of the article.
I advise you to read it again.
LOL, picking straws?
Nationalism is one way to destroy Arab hegemony, as they were conquerors of peoples who will want to rediscover their ancient history. However, dividing the world into ever smaller, indefensible states does not make sense. If an area like Palestine, Lebanon, and Kuwait has no geographic barriers, and a small poor population it may not have the political or economic resources to be a sucessful state, even if it does have the ambition. I think we have carried nationalism too far, already.
Oh give it a break mussywhiner. Let the Egyptians have Egypt, Lebanese have Lebanon, Hebrews have Hebron and Persians have Persia back. Oh, and send the Araba back to Arabia.
They are all semites joker.
One must pick straws to construct a strawman to argue with.
The point is - when the Arabs speak about "occupied territories" and "refugees", they ignore the log in their own eyes - Copts, Kurds, Berberes, Sudanese, Kabyles etc etc...as well as 800,000 Jews expelled from their countries after 1948.
For years, the term "Arab Christians" was used to categorize the Christians in the Middle East. However, the concept instead of being precisely defined was intellectually misused and politically abused. Both Arab regimes and "Arabists" in the West attempted to libel all Christians living under the sovereignty of Arab states, as "Arab Christians."
This denial of identity of millions of indigenous non-Arab nations can be equated to an organized ethnic cleansing on a politico-cultural level. Similarly to the Turkish attempts to eradicate the ethnic identity of the Kurds, whom they call "Mountain Turks," and the Assyrians, whom they define as "Semitic Turks."
Arab-Islamic regimes in the region assert that all those Christians who live within the confines of "Arab borders" are "Arab." With Arab nationalism at its peak, and "Arabist" circles at the apex of their political influence in the West, the pre-Arab ethnicities of the Middle East became the real underdogs of the region.
http://www.arabicbible.com/christian/intro_arab_christians.htm
Blah-blah.
"Prior to the Arab Islamic invasion of the upper Middle East--the term invasion is crucial--most of the peoples of the region, with the exception of the ancient Israelites, were Christianized: Copts in Egypt, Assyro-Chaldeans in Mesopotamia, Nubian Africans in Sudan, Armenians in Asia Minor, Phoenicians (Arameans, Canaanites, Amorites) in Syria, and Lebanon. With the dispersion of the Jews by the Romans, limited number of Christians moved to Palestine from the north and the East. In Arabia, the majority was pagan, a large segment of Arab tribes converted to Christianity, and after the dismantlement of ancient Israel, the number of Jewish centers increased in the Peninsula. Therefore, prior to the Arab Islamic Conquest, the upper Middle East was not Arab, its overwhelming majority was Christian"
There have also been Arab Jews, and Jewish Arabs!
Did you wish to make a point?
Were you aware that the Persian Empire was NOT Christianized? That included vast stretches of what is now identified as Iraq!
Then there are the other people in the Middle East who have Egyptian ancestors ~ they are all over the place, even on the tops of mountains in Yemen.
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