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To: Dont Mention the War

Mar 14, 3:17 PM EST

Judge finds California's marriage law unconstitutional

By LISA LEFF
Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A judge ruled Monday that California can no longer justify limiting marriage to a man and a woman, a legal milestone that if upheld on appeal would pave the way for the nation's most populous state to follow Massachusetts in allowing same-sex couples to wed.

In an opinion that had been awaited because of San Francisco's historical role as a gay rights battleground, San Francisco County Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer said that withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians is unconstitutional.

"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.

The judge wrote that the state's historical definition of marriage, by itself, cannot justify the unconstitutional denial of equal protection for gays and lesbians and their right to marry.

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"The state's protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional," Kramer wrote.

Kramer's decision came in a pair of lawsuits seeking to overturn California's statutory ban on gay marriage. They were brought by the city of San Francisco and a dozen same-sex couples last March, after the California Supreme Court halted the four-week marriage spree Mayor Gavin Newsom had initiated when he directed city officials to issue marriage licenses to gays and lesbians in defiance of state law.

It could be months or years, however, before the state actually sanctions same-sex marriage, if it sanctions the unions at all. Two legal groups representing religious conservatives joined with California's attorney general in defending the existing laws.

Robert Tyler, an attorney with the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, said the group would appeal Kramer's ruling.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer has said in the past that he expected the matter eventually would have to be settled by the California Supreme Court.


8 posted on 03/14/2005 12:19:28 PM PST by So Cal Rocket (Proud Member: Internet Pajama Wearers for Truth)
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To: So Cal Rocket
"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.

"rational" completely relative to a bleeding heart wussy liberal...

15 posted on 03/14/2005 12:20:42 PM PST by smith288 (The GOP, Ditech of politics... "lost another one to GOP" - Howard dean)
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To: So Cal Rocket
A judge ruled

Stunning that one judge can overrule the people of California.

22 posted on 03/14/2005 12:26:30 PM PST by Aggie Mama
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To: So Cal Rocket
judge ruled Monday that California can no longer justify limiting marriage to a man and a woman, a legal milestone that if upheld on appeal would pave the way for the nation's most populous state to follow Massachusetts in allowing same-sex couples to wed.

If the gender of the couple doesn't matter, should the number? What about polygamists?

23 posted on 03/14/2005 12:27:56 PM PST by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: So Cal Rocket
judge ruled Monday that California can no longer justify limiting marriage to a man and a woman, a legal milestone that if upheld on appeal would pave the way for the nation's most populous state to follow Massachusetts in allowing same-sex couples to wed.

If the gender of the couple doesn't matter, should the number? What about polygamists?

24 posted on 03/14/2005 12:28:11 PM PST by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: So Cal Rocket

"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.




Also no rational reason why mother-daughter, father-son, brother-brother, sister-sister can't marry. In the case of mother-daughter or father-son, it would be quite practical for children taking care of elderly parents and needing the SS survivor benefits, and no inhertance tax.


25 posted on 03/14/2005 12:28:37 PM PST by Avenger
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To: So Cal Rocket

Our government is run by the Constitution. The constitution is how the people tell the governmen how to run it and the parameters of the laws it can pass with the peoples will.

Prop 22 in Calif was a change to the Constitution, not a law to be ruled on my the courts, it is actually the opposite. We told the government how to operate and what laws they can pass.


29 posted on 03/14/2005 12:30:17 PM PST by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: So Cal Rocket

The state can and should ignore this judges ruling.

It is his 'opinion' and not an 'edict', that would force the state to abandon it's own laws.

Judge's, in these types of cases, have no force of imposition.


33 posted on 03/14/2005 12:31:19 PM PST by Bigh4u2
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To: So Cal Rocket
San Francisco County Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer

Judge Kramer should have recuse himself. All Judges in SF are prohibited from supporting the Boy Scouts due to he scout's perceived intolerance and discrimination against gays. A major conflict of interest on his part.

35 posted on 03/14/2005 12:34:00 PM PST by Drango (All my ideas, good or bad, are stolen from other FReepers)
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To: So Cal Rocket

One stinking leftist judge. One stinking ACLU'er.


36 posted on 03/14/2005 12:34:46 PM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: So Cal Rocket

Kramer? When did he leave NYC and move to the left coast? I just knew there was something odd about that guy.


38 posted on 03/14/2005 12:34:58 PM PST by fella
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To: So Cal Rocket

Pitiful. Goodbye "We the people." We have no say any longer.


41 posted on 03/14/2005 12:36:30 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real politcal victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: So Cal Rocket
"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.

What a moron.

52 posted on 03/14/2005 12:41:16 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (“I know a great deal about the Middle East because I’ve been raising Arabian horses" Patrick Swazey)
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To: So Cal Rocket
"The state's protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional," Kramer wrote.

Well, he's right that tradition isn't much of a legal reason, or even a logical one. Was that the argument that was used by opponents of gay marriage?

54 posted on 03/14/2005 12:43:03 PM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: So Cal Rocket
It is simply not going to be possible to limit the definition of marriage. I say it is time to get the government, at all level, out of the marriage business altogether. People got married long before the State of California started issuing licenses. Let people get married by their churches or however they want, then register a domestic partnership with the state, if they choose to. Domestic partnership would come along with a whole raft of rights and responsibilities, but would have nothing to do with marriage. The state would then dissolve the domestic partnership in divorce, but the marriage would be the business of whatever entity did it in the first place. The only thing the state can do is continually broaden the definition to include whatever group wants to sue it next.

Since the state got involved in marriage, it has done nothing but erode the sanctity of the institution. This is because the state can never create -- it can only destroy. Time to keep them as far away from the institution of marriage as possible.

I don't know why heterosexuals should be all enthusiastic about maintaining their status of being the only ones who must to knuckle under to the petty authority of the state to register who they are going to spend their time with. It is simply none of the state's business, and it never has been. It is just societal inertia that makes the state's definition of marriage into the definition of marriage.

60 posted on 03/14/2005 12:47:19 PM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: So Cal Rocket
"It appears that no rational purpose exists
for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-
sex partners," Kramer wrote.


65 posted on 03/14/2005 12:49:20 PM PST by Petronski (If 'Judge' Greer can kill Terri, who will be next?)
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To: So Cal Rocket
In an opinion that had been awaited because of San Francisco's historical role as a gay rights battleground, San Francisco County Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer said that withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians is unconstitutional.

Here's a chink in the pervert armor, and a chance for the other 90% to speak up.

Superior Court judges ARE subject to "no confidence" votes!

76 posted on 03/14/2005 12:57:25 PM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: So Cal Rocket
"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.

Nothing except a law passed by 2/3 of California voters.

78 posted on 03/14/2005 1:00:30 PM PST by GVnana (If I had a Buckhead moment would I know it?)
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To: So Cal Rocket

Give an idiot a robe and they soon think they own the place.


92 posted on 03/14/2005 1:13:58 PM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: So Cal Rocket

Impeach this piece of sh*t "judge" who makes up the law as he goes along.


97 posted on 03/14/2005 1:21:40 PM PST by tomahawk
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To: So Cal Rocket

What is so irritating about yet another judge playing God IS that the people of California have already spoken regarding this subject---

they already voted to have marriage be between and man and a woman and this judge has decided that because of California's constitution's clause, the people's vote doesn't count===

So, I truly think that the only choice is for Bush to really push for a National Constitutional Amendment or the 9th circuit WILL ultimately get this case---

Judge Napalitano on Fox said it would go to the Cal. Supremes, but who wants to bet what THEY will decide?


110 posted on 03/14/2005 1:29:47 PM PST by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Chief Justice!)
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