Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex
In principle, the society was organized around voluntary exchange of goods and labor for military protection, which is vassalage.

The principle you present here never existed to even be considered. The few places where it was put into actual practice, it happened only for a very short time (never more than a half century). Vassals as such did not even make a widely accepted appearance until the 11th century, and they did not relate much to common people until the 13th century. There was no established set of rules or written set of principles, on which guidance could be found for governing society, except possibly the mild punitive measures that could be enforced against the unwarranted killing of slaves, as set out by the Council of Worms in 876. But it would be several hundred years before that restriction was common place in Europe.

As Europe moved into the more modern Monarchist Era in the 13th century, new laws came into being and became common place for cutting off legal escape into the church as well as freeing military service, and thereby common people became increasingly locked in to their involuntary status as either slaves or serfs. The only voluntary options open to the common people, at that time, was the common practice among the few freemen and freedmen to volunteer to become slaves or serfs so as to avoid starvation. That of course was limited to the few of them who lasted long enough without breaking one of the many many local laws that resulted in their enslavement before hand.

...the state and the church were orthogonal structures of power that coexisted in tension.

Actually, this could be more accurately stated that secular powers and the church powers were orthogonal structures... But I would not agree, except to say that only occasionally was this true. For the most part the church was a super state governing over its various areas to varying degrees. In some situations, places, and times, the church was weaker than the secular powers, while in others it was stronger. Over all, every century between the 400 and 1400 was so all chaotic, that it is impossible to say which was more so.

296 posted on 04/22/2005 11:43:32 PM PDT by jackbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 295 | View Replies ]


To: jackbob
Vassal-suzerein relationship is fundamental to feudalism. Consult any book.
Feudalism can be simply defined as
  1. fragmentation of political power;
  2. public power in private hands; and
  3. armed forces secured through private contracts.
Feudalism

the church was a super state

Prior to the Investiture Controversy, the local secular lord would install bishops and Rome would complain that the bishops were not to its liking. Following Gregory VII, Rome wrestled the right to appoint bishops from the German Emperor, in exchange for absolution of Emperor's' sins, which cleared a way for the Emperor to be elected by the (secular) council of princes. The Emperor quickly reversed himself and fought a war on Rome.

And we, indeed, have endured all this, being eager to guard the honour of the apostolic see; thou, however, has understood our humility to be fear, and hast not, accordingly, shunned to rise up against the royal power conferred upon us by God, daring to threaten to divest us of it. As if we had received our kingdom from thee!

(Letter of King Henry IV to Gregory VII)

This describes Rome as a superstate?

298 posted on 04/25/2005 10:22:46 AM PDT by annalex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 296 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson