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To: jackbob

There is a problem mandating altruism, and Rand was good to point that out. But there is a problem not teaching kindness as well. In fact, if people were properly taught Christian ethics of voluntary (there is no other kind) charity, there would be no impetus to emulate charity through laws. Note that prior to 20 century, when the West was still listening to the social teaching of the Christian church, the government was completely separated from charity.

Besides, the fact that our political system is screwed up is no reason to discard the notional system, in which altruism is a necessary part. When an airplane crashes, you won't say "there is no such thing as gravity".

The classical philosophy made a contribution in Christian theology, noticeable in the Gospel of John and fully developed by Aquinas. But Christ's ethical teaching, in particular expressed in the Gospel of Matthew, was revolutionary. It is therefore the start of the Western ethical teaching.

I would say that starting at about 1500 the West experienced decline in all but techology, slow at first, very rapid in the 20 century. The dilution and often complete negation of Christianity indeed is not solely, not even primarily, Rand's fault. So I could perhaps agree that modern eclectism has many fathers. Or mothers.

But arguing over the demise of the West is probably another topic.


263 posted on 04/02/2005 10:00:42 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
In fact, if people were properly taught Christian ethics of voluntary... charity, there would be no impetus to emulate charity through laws. Note that prior to 20 century, when the West was still listening to the social teaching of the Christian church, the government was completely separated from charity.

Government church taxes are the norm in European history. Even here in the early United States, church taxes were the norm, existing in all the states with the exception of New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island. Christian ethical influence of earlier colonial America were monstrous. For example the Virginia statute known as the Dade Code which imposed a death penalty on any person who "spoke impiously of the Trinity or one of the divine persons, or against the known articles of Christian faith." The death penalty could also be imposed for missing church three times without cause, and jail time for arguing with a member of the anglican clergy, who were the only legal clergy of Virginia. It required that new people in the colony be questioned by the local clergy to determine if they were holy enough to stay.

Reversing and eliminating the effects of Christian ethics from the American law was a hard fought protracted political war that went on for several decades after the American Revolution. Thankfully the secularists won that war. One of those secularists, James Madison, wrote early on in his life at age 22 that "religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded project." Later as President of the United States, he was once forced to veto two bills that attempted to reestablish the old doctrine of Christian ethics in the single month of February, 1811. One was a bill passed by Congress to give land in the Mississippi Territory to the Baptist, the other was a bill to provide funds to a "pious charity" established by the Episcopal Church of Alexandria, Virginia, and the District of Columbia. The fight with the old Christian ethics was hardly over even during his Presidency.

Thus your conclusion "that prior to 20 century, when the West was still listening to the social teaching of the Christian church, the government was completely separated from charity," is not correct. One of the best examples is the famous Congressman Davy Crockett legacy that has been posted to FreeRepublic many times over the years since you and I joined it. Its well worth the read.

Christ's ethical teaching, in particular expressed in the Gospel of Matthew, was revolutionary. It is therefore the start of the Western ethical teaching.

No doubt about it, Christ's ethical teaching were quite revolutionary. But they have never at any time been a part of the Western ethical teaching, and definitely did not start it. The Wests ethical teaching started in ancient Greece, predating the gospels by several hundred years. As far as Christ's ethical teachings go, they have always been rejected by ethics, as well as by all mainstream Christian churches throughout history since at least the 4th century. All mainstream churches today completely ignore his teaching's on ethics.

I would say that starting at about 1500 the West experienced decline...

I am pretty well read in history, and cannot imagine what you are referring to here. Please explain? No hurry, I work long hours on all Sundays and Mondays, and may not read your reply till Tuesday. Thankyou.

264 posted on 04/03/2005 3:55:23 AM PDT by jackbob
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