City of San Diego Orders 29-Foot Cross Removed from Mountainside

San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | March 9, 2005 | Matthew T. Hall

[Crackingham]

The Mount Soledad cross must go, the San Diego City Council said yesterday.

The 16-year saga of whether the cross would stay on public land in La Jolla came to an emotional conclusion last night as the council voted 5-3 to reject a last-ditch effort to keep it in place.

The vote capped a six-hour public hearing that attracted 350 people, most of them Christians who urged the council to donate the cross and surrounding land to the federal government so it possibly could remain where it has stood since 1954.

But the cross now must be moved to comply with an injunction forbidding its presence on public land. Federal Judge Gordon Thompson Jr. issued the injunction in 1991, when he ruled that the cross violated the state Constitution's guarantee of separation between church and state. Thompson had left it to the city and the lawyers in the case to resolve the matter.

In the latest court decision in the case, a panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2002 that the constitutional violation still existed when it struck down the city's second attempt to sell the land to a private buyer.

"This is definitely the first page of the final chapter, and I don't expect the final chapter to last another five years," lawyer James McElroy said last night. "I think we are at the end of the line here."

McElroy represents Philip Paulson, one of two atheists who filed the original lawsuit against the city in 1989.

He said attorneys for the city as well as the group that maintains the cross and Paulson will meet soon to finalize plans for when and where to move the cross, which stands 29 feet tall on top of a 5-foot-high base. McElroy said he would call the City Attorney's Office today, and that the cross could be moved within 90 days.

[tomball]

 I may get flamed for saying all this, but this topic really gets my Irish up.

At the rate this country is going, it appears that these atheists, ACLU types, or whatever else, will do everything in their power to eliminate anything in this country that is remotely religious in nature, and eventually these types will include churches or houses of worship simply because they are built in public view.
 
Why hasn't a single elected official or attorney fought on behalf of the historic artistic representations of a society that was built on faith by a people of faith?  Houses are saved for historical reference - why aren't statues, paintings, and symbols like the cross protected by our constitution?  An Indian burial mound gets at least that much respect.
 
About ten years ago, the ACLU investigated a local grade school here that had an original painting of Jesus hanging in its lobby.  They demanded its removal or they were going to sue the school - never mind that it was donated to the school and had been hanging there since 1957.  The school had no money for the courts, so the painting came down.  About five years ago a local community here was under attack by the ACLU because the drawing of a church was incorporated in the city's 150 year old seal.  The same results occurred.
 
For too long the ACLU-type  "tolerant" anti-religious zealots with hidden agendas have made intolerant demands on innocent people under the threat of using the courtrooms and law suits as blackmail to get their way.  It is obvious that they are trying to change history by stripping all religious crosses, statues, and paintings from public view.  That our elected officials and the courts support and cajole these idiots, and do not protect the majority of working taxpaying citizens - or respect historic works of art is a form of censorship, and  is an even greater travesty of justice. 
 
If your cross is forced to be removed, do you think for one minute that the ACLU-types would allow it to be displayed in a formal, public museum setting as a historic artifact?  I think not. The last I heard about the Alabama 2-ton Ten Commandments was that the supreme court demanded it be removed and it was placed in a basement somewhere out of public view.  (Kind of reminds you of what Hitler did in Europe, doesn't it?)
 
 No crosses in public view?  One can only guess that our national cemeteries will  the next  place of attack. 

Paintings, Crosses, Statues, Seals, Religious Symbols - THESE ARE INANIMATE OBJECTS - IT IS ART!  Paintings do not proselytize students. Statues, crosses and seals are artistic symbols of faith - they do not spew propaganda.  I cannot say the same for politicians, our local elected officials, the media in general, or most of the people I've run into over the years. 

It is 2005 and Christians are still being thrown to the lions.  
 

[blessu]

In other news, every cross on every civilian and military grave everywhere in the United States was deemed offensive and ordered torn down.

[Publius6961]

This reminds me totally of the similar brouhaha in San Francisco (I grew up there).

There was (is) a giant cross on Mt Davidson, and it might still be there.
The legal wrangling went on for years, But I believe that the cross is still in place. It was used every year for sunrise Easter services, as I recall.

Does anyone know its present status?

[yellowdoghunter]

Excellent post.

[Polyxene]

Does anyone know if the ACLJ is involved in this case? Sounds like a case for Jay Sekulow. He's a bulldog.

[tang-soo]

...the state Constitution's guarantee of separation between church and state.

Is this clearly stated in the CA constitution just like it is in the US Constitution? </sarcasm>

[jeremiah]

People can blame the ACLU, the city council or the Supreme Court. The truth is, the people are at fault. They could easily exert themselves and stop this from happening, but they won't. They don't care enough about this country, or their heritage to make a stand. If a judge ruled tomorrow that all people had 24 hours to turn in any guns they possessed, 85% would do so. If a few thousand citizens would surround this cross and refuse to let it be torn down, it would stay. The left would put someone on the thing, and bring them food and blankets till eternity ends, the right will complain and try to finagle the system.......just like the Republicans in DC.

[OKIEDOC]

"A big part of the problem is that the ACLU is essentially a Congressionally subsidized EXTORTION RACKET using a loophole in Civil Rights legislation to file lawsuits anywhere they can dowse up some purported offense under their BIG LIE doctrine of "Separation of Church and State."


What needs to be done to repeal the law.

Is there a FReeper who knows enough law to help get this rampage stopped on the part of the ACLU and other radical groups collecting attorney fees for filling frivolous lawsuits.

Thats the only way to stop this idiocy is to cut off their money and they will go back to chasing ambulances.

[Robe]

A few quotes from Thomas Jefferson for your perusal and comment...
(I think there's a message in here somewhere)

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

Every generation needs a new revolution.
Thomas Jefferson

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
Thomas Jefferson

know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson

I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.
Thomas Jefferson

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
Thomas Jefferson

It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
Thomas Jefferson

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
Thomas Jefferson

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
Thomas Jefferson

[jeremiah]

The lady holding scales in front of the courthouses throughout America, is a Greek goddess is she not? Isn't it time that citizens demand the legislative branch take back the power they are given by the Constitution, and defang the Judicial? Isn't the existence of the Judicial branch in its current form, taxation without representation? There is no way to influence their decisions, and they rule like a king.

[tang-soo]

Wow, I just checked that out. It's true. I wouldn't have beleived it.

[OKIEDOC]

Seems to me it is time to stop paying radical groups like the ACLU for suing the people of the United States.

Someone needs to start a movement to have congress change the law.

It is ridiculous for the people to pay for radical groups to sue us.

[Carry_Okie]

May Earl Warren receive his just reward.

[Pyro7480]

It's time for some civil disobedience to save this war memorial.

[kellynla]

still in bed! LOL

[TwoWolves]

The ACLU takes on cases like this because they get paid from public funds to do it.

That's right. You and I are PAYING to have our religious freedom stripped from us.

Phyllis Schlafly writes about this in "The Supremacists". She also has a plan that can be used to stop this.

[TommyDale]

If the courts and the general public continue ignoring this problem, we will soon have no history. It will all be rewritten in politically-correct format. Father Junipero Serra must be spinning in his grave under the Carmel Mission, which itself eventually may be forced to remove any religious symbols.

[KurtAZ]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


So unless I am reading this wrong...the Government is not supposed to make any laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. So basically, forcing a removal of religous emblems is in effect making a law, as rulings of the courts are effectively laws, and the ruling is un-constitutional. Now I am sure there are legal precedences etc. in other decisions that further define what the judges have to say about the First Ammendment...but if you just read the text, it seems pretty clear. Govt. keeps their hands off religions and doesn't establish it's own.

[Gaetano]

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?. .

Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96

Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97

Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97

Stamps, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98

Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98

Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98

Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98

Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99

Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99

Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99

Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99

Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99

Santee, California 3/5/01 and

El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

---

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

---

How did this get started?...

---

Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, OK...

---

Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible that says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, OK...

---

Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave

because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.

And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore..

---

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children

when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.

And we accepted their reasoning...

---

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents.

And we said, that's a grand idea...

---

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're

going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.

And we said, that's another great idea...

---

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.

And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good...

---

And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.

And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

---

And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead...

---

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

---

Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

[Liz]

Don't give up on the cross. One option remains.

Federal law known as the Antiquities Act authorizes the President to designate landmarks and structures as national monuments and make the property on which the monument stands federal property.

President Clinton used this law to establish numerous new national monuments during his term.

In addition, the Historic Sites Act allows the Secretary of the Interior to designate certain sites national historic landmarks and bring them under the care of the National Park Service.

Just recently, on Veterans' Day, a new plaque was added to the Mt. Soledad Memorial to honor President Reagan, further strengthening its status as a monument worthy of national protection.

Thus, it is fitting that the President formally designate Mt. Soledad as a national memorial park for veterans, and save it from destruction at the hands of the ACLU. President Bush can save the historic cross from another ACLU-backed removal by designating Mt. Soledad a national monument.

The Antiquities Act authorizes the President to designate landmarks and structures as national monuments. President Bush must make the Mount Soledad cross a national monument.

EMAIL, FAX or PHONE Gov Arnold, and every Republican California legislator to contact the president today asking GWB to launch this initiative:

CA WEB SITE http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jMbXBSy2Ie8J:www.standingupforcalifornia.com/action/contact-legislators.html

EMAIL, FAX or PHONE every Republican US Senator and Representative:

US GOV WEB SITE http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact.shtml

SAMPLE LETTER: The Antiquities Act authorizes the President to designate landmarks and structures as national monuments. President Bush must make the Mount Soledad cross a national monument.A 43-foot tall cross that was erected atop Mt. Soledad in San Diego, California 50 years ago to honor our nation’s veterans faces imminent removal unless we act now.

An ACLU-backed atheist has waged a 15-year court battle to force removal of the famous cross, and a federal court has ordered the city of San Diego to remove it.

However, one option remains. Federal law known as the Antiquities Act authorizes the President to designate landmarks and structures as national monuments and make the property on which the monument stands federal property. President Clinton used this law to establish numerous new national monuments during his term.

In addition, the Historic Sites Act allows the Secretary of the Interior to designate certain sites national historic landmarks and bring them under the care of the National Park Service.Just this month, on Veterans' Day, a new plaque was added to the Mt. Soledad Memorial to honor President Reagan, further strengthening its status as a monument worthy of national protection.

Thus, it is fitting that the President formally designate Mt. Soledad as a national memorial park for veterans, and save it from destruction at the hands of the ACLU. President Bush can save the historic cross from another ACLU-backed removal by designating Mt. Soledad a national monument.