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To: William Tell

That's right, Norman Bates said that. Thank you for pointing that out. I never said keeping and bearing arms should be a crime. I believe strongly in private firearm ownership and second amendment rights. What I stated was my opinion. If you disagree, fine. You may not. But please spare me the piling-on.

And what happens when a teacher leaves his personal gun in his desk, a student takes it while the teacher goes to the bathroom or office or whatever, and uses it to kill another student? Can you imagine the outcry? If you want to protect students then install metal detectors and have a policeman stationed at the school during school hours. Or better yet instill some moral values into these children and hold their parents responsible.

By your argument it is a crime against second amendment rights for not being allowed to carry a concealed weapon for "self-defense" to a Bush rally. Perhaps you'd want to carry a grenade there, too!

FR can be a funny place. First I get lambasted for supporting creationism on an evolution thread. Then I get lambasted for opposing human cloning on a UN thread. Now I get lambasted for saying that perhaps it's not such a great idea to allow non-law enforcement people to bring guns, grenades, rockets, or mines (!) to a place were young children are supposed to learn. I know, I know. I really should know better...


31 posted on 03/02/2005 8:41:35 PM PST by Norman Bates (Usama Bin Laden, 1957-2005)
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To: Norman Bates
Norman Bates said: "If you want to protect students then install metal detectors and have a policeman stationed at the school during school hours. Or better yet instill some moral values into these children and hold their parents responsible. "

Hmm...Let me think about this. What would I do if I was running a private school? Moral values and parental responsibility? You bet. Metal detectors and state-controlled policemen? Never.

33 posted on 03/02/2005 8:50:13 PM PST by William Tell
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To: Norman Bates
Norman Bates said: "FR can be a funny place. First I get lambasted for supporting creationism on an evolution thread. Then I get lambasted for opposing human cloning on a UN thread. Now I get lambasted for saying that perhaps it's not such a great idea to allow non-law enforcement people to bring guns, grenades, rockets, or mines (!) to a place were young children are supposed to learn. I know, I know. I really should know better..."

Sounds like you've had a rough day.

My opposition against laws which prohibit the keeping and bearing of arms is that the laws do no good, not that criminals should be allowed to attack school children with grenades. You are not going to protect school children by passing laws which disarm me and create free-fire zones for criminals.

34 posted on 03/02/2005 9:02:59 PM PST by William Tell
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To: Norman Bates

I have problems with some of your arguements. First of all, in the example that a teacher has a gun in his/her desk and a student takes the gun and kills someone with this. This presumes the gun causes the crime. It is the person who causes the crime. If the student wanted to kill another just grab a baseball bat or the axe from the fire drill. It is illogical to prevent the tools because someone could use it for evil.

Also you said that morals and personal responsibility needs to be instilled in the students. Then you said hold the parents responsible. If you hold another person responsible for a crime someone else does, that does not make the criminal responsible. You are transfering responsibility to a third party , whether that is a parent or some one else. Your statement was inherently contradictory. Also if you want people to be responsible you have to trust them to do the right thing. Again that is a trust issue, should the people be allowed to use dangerous tools. Young people have to be trusted to do the right thing. Also they have to be taught that guns are a tool and can be dangerous. Classes in gunhandling should be taught in school as well as the proper gun ethics.

Farmers and students in my fathers days were taught how to use explosives since that was a useful skill. Now to have some pipes and ferilizer you are presumed that your are making bombs and are a terrorist.

Remember police are to catch criminals, not protect you. That is your responsibility. IT was not the authorities that made the last jet to crash and thus fail to complete its mission on 9/11, it was the people , the passengers. The best preventive measures from bad people is the general populace. If people had not been trained and told to allow the hijackers to be handled by professionals, none of the attacks would have suceeded. Ordinary people will do what is necesssary if they feel that that they can without being condemned.

I watched the Columbine disaster, and the police did nothing, but prevent ordinary people from doing something. This prevailing attitude that we are not supposed to act and only allow the authorities to act for us, is to transfer our own freedoms and authority. This is not the attitude of free people.


40 posted on 03/02/2005 10:20:02 PM PST by Rhiannon
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