College-level grammar lost on college students

The Digital Collegian (Penn State) ^ | Friday, Feb. 25, 2005 | Jen Winberry

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

There are some things I just do not understand, and I am at a point where I have given up on figuring out many of these puzzlers.

But there are still some conundrums I am determined to solve.

For the life of me I cannot understand how it is that we have reached this level in our academic careers and we still cannot speak proper English.

We have all taken at least seven years of secondary English classes prior to coming to Penn State, and once we are here, we must take a minimum of two more classes. These courses, in addition to the primary schooling we receive and the out-of-class interaction we have with other people, should provide ample opportunity to learn, if not master, this language of ours.

I have to admit, I do find it humorous when people try to speak correctly and fail miserably. I had a friend who would say phrases such as, "If you have problems, come see Heather or I."

At the time, I never had the guts to correct her, but now in a public forum I will.

My friend should tell people to see "Heather and me," because if we were to remove Heather, my friend would not say "come see I," she would say "come see me."

I also hear people say, "Heather and me went to the movies."

Once again, without Heather, I doubt "me went to the movies." While you may think I am just an anal grammar prick, I am just tired of hearing Penn Staters sound like morons.

Critics will say students here are highly intelligent.

Yet on a daily basis I am inundated with examples proving otherwise.

For example, take the word "ignorant."

Now those who have actually picked up a dictionary know the word means lacking education or knowledge.

Chances are, if you have made it to college you have picked up a dictionary at least once, which is why I cannot understand for the life of me why people insist on using this word to mean "rude."

I hear phrases such as, "Gosh, he is so ignorant.

How could he even say that to you" all the time, but now that everyone is clear on the true meaning of the word ignorant, the next time I hear this statement, the "he" in question better be showing a lack of knowledge.

As much as I do not like misuse of the word ignorant, there are several things that irk me more. One of them includes our good friend, Mr. Supposedly. This guy just tries to live a normal life like any other word and then we come along and try to hook him up with Ms. Supposebly.

Now this would be great if "supposebly" were actually in the English lexicon. In fact, it is not, and it is a sorry excuse for the pronunciation of Mr. Supposedly.

And there is no convincing me that I am wrong or that this mistake is not that big of a deal; Chandler broke up with a girl for doing the same thing.

The common problems I hear do not always have to do with people making up words or mispronouncing ones that actually exist.

One thing to which I have really taken a notice lately is the overuse of the word "like."

It is one thing to "like" a boy or live "like" royalty, but it is quite another to, "Like, oh my gosh, did you like, hear like, what like he said to her?"

Now let's examine this for a second. Would anyone ever actually write that out on paper? No. So if you wouldn't write it out on paper, why would you say it aloud?

Amy Heckerling's 1995 hit Clueless introduced our generation to this horrible word, and ever since we have not been able to let go of it.

While it may have been trendy to use "like" in between each word back then, now it just makes the speaker look like a fool.

Imagine this: You graduate from Penn State and go out into the real world to a job interview.

The interviewer begins by asking you a few questions about your background and previous experience.

Now, do you honestly think the interviewer will hire a perceivably ditzy chica who used the words "like" and "you know" as often as it rains in State College?

Or will he or she choose a perceivably intelligent young lass who is well-spoken and articulate.

I think the answer is clear.

While this hypothetical situation may be several years off for many students here, it really is never too early to start looking to the future. Old habits have the tendency to die hard, and it will take a while to shake those old ways.

The future will look brighter though, and I am sure your professors and anal retentive English geek friends will appreciate the effort, too.

[arthurus]

as good of an assumption as

so good an assumption as

[Lee Heggy]

"And starting a new paragraph with a conjunction would be the death of me."

Nor would I not be as fearfull as you in such conjunctive dilemmas. And spelling is my baddest mistake when hurried.

[Tanniker Smith]

It is one thing to "like" a boy or live "like" royalty

You, of course, meant to live as royalty, right?

Reminds me of the "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" book author who complained repeatedly about the punctuation in Warner Brothers "Two Weeks Notice" (there should be an apostrophe in there).

Unfortunately, the same author failed to note, repeatedly, that there is no such organization as Warner Brothers. It is always Warner Bros. in print. Note the punctuation.

TS

[Little Pig]

Which kind OF deal was that? Not that big of a deal. Using "of" is not incorrect here.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

LOL!

[arthurus]

why, when one uses a broom, isn't it called 'brooming'?

Convention. It can be called 'brooming'

[chudogg]

5 entries found for colloquial.



col·lo·qui·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-lkw-l)
adj.
Characteristic of or appropriate to the spoken language or to writing that seeks the effect of speech; informal.
Relating to conversation; conversational.

---

[From colloquy.]

---

col·loqui·al n.
col·loqui·al·ly adv.
col·loqui·al·ness n.

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: colloquial
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: pertaining to words or expressions more suitable for speech than writing; in informal, conversational style
Etymology: Latin colloquium `speaking together'



Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.5)
Copyright © 2003, 2004 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC

Main Entry: colloquial
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: colloquial language or speech
Etymology: Latin colloquium `speaking together'



Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.5)
Copyright © 2003, 2004 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC


colloquial

colloquial was Word of the Day on August 18, 1999.


Source: Dictionary.com Word of the Day


colloquial

adj : characteristic of informal spoken language or conversation; "wrote her letters in a colloquial style"; "the broken syntax and casual enunciation of conversational English" [syn: conversational]

[arthurus]

Use of "like" goes back at least to the 50s.

[arthurus]

even this article, though free of grammar errors,

Please sê reply #61.

[evolutionary]

It's no wonder children don't have respect for the English languange when our President massacres our native tongue daily. When was the last time you heard an Ivy League grad speak as poorly as Bush?

[arthurus]

Irregardless...

[Lee Heggy]

"Use of "like" goes back at least to the 50s"

It's a Maynard G. Krebs thang.

[Rockingham]

The reason is simple: years ago, in the seventies, it became distressingly clear after integration took hold in the public schools that when existing standards were applied without regard to race, Black kids fared poorly. Their parents and various civil rights groups were then energized to claim discrimination.

For most teachers and school administrators, it swiftly became apparent that maintaining school discipline and high academic standards -- always a struggle -- now had the disabling burden of being accused of racism and having to defend oneself in court. Of course, students -- and especially Black kids -- were shortchanged by the lowering of academic standards. But the pressures to do so were impossible to resist and have become thoroughly institutionalized in American public education.

For most American kids, the quality of your education is now a matter of where you live and your home environment. Black kids in the suburbs from intact families do well compared to their inner city cousins being raised by a single parent or other relatives, but they still do less well than their white suburban peers.

As John Ogbu and others have repeatedly demonstrated, Black youth culture now subverts Black educational effort by deriding it as "acting white." Black youth culture thus now anchors most of America's K-12 schools to the lowered standards necessary to avoid the kind of gross racial disparities in grading patterns that invite federal lawsuits and charges of racism.

Of course, Black parents want better schools and a better education for their children, but they are mostly trapped in the fundamentally dysfunctional public educational system and unable to flee or force the necessary reforms. They have been badly served by their leaders, most of whom are compromised by organizational and money ties to the impresarios and performers of Black youth culture.

The divergent reactions to Bill Cosby's recent criticisms revealed a compromised Black leadership -- but also much reason for hope due to the amens that he got from Black parents. Who knows, but somewhere a dedicated civil rights lawyer is drafting a federal rights complaint that will challenge a major school system for the weak instruction and accommodating grading policies that guarantee most Black public school kids are never even offered the education that they deserve.

[Graybeard58]

Use of "like" goes back at least to the 50s.

My first recollection of it was when the "beatniks" used it in the early 50s.

[chudogg]

Unfortunately, even this article, though free of grammar errors, is hardly a polished piece of writing.

True, this article only has a Flesch-Kincaid grade level of 8.0. You would think a college educated grammar nazi could bang out a 12.0 easily. Although, i hear in journalism classes they say its proper to write a 7.0 because thats what the general public reads at. So maybe he is being edumucated.

[arthurus]

I've always been of the opinion that she married up

That is a pretty serious insult if you mean intellectually.

[Goodgirlinred]

LOL! No, I don't. I did not know what that was until my granddaughter instant messaged me. I looked at her AIM icon and it kept switching from one picture to another. It was about labels for girls. One was Goth and the girl was dressed in the Gothic manner. Yuck. So, that is how I found out about that. Her buddy icon said something like "Labels are for Soup, not People." Pretty good for a 14 year old, I thought. :)

[arthurus]

Irregardless...

[tumblindice]

Our kids may not have any idea what 'The Trivium' means but they have really high, uh, self-esteem. Now, let's all sing 'I Am Somebody' and--trophies & ribbons for everybody!

[SupplySider]

Irregardless...

Unfortunately irregardless is not very unique. Its enough to make one nauseous.