College-level grammar lost on college students

The Digital Collegian (Penn State) ^ | Friday, Feb. 25, 2005 | Jen Winberry

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

There are some things I just do not understand, and I am at a point where I have given up on figuring out many of these puzzlers.

But there are still some conundrums I am determined to solve.

For the life of me I cannot understand how it is that we have reached this level in our academic careers and we still cannot speak proper English.

We have all taken at least seven years of secondary English classes prior to coming to Penn State, and once we are here, we must take a minimum of two more classes. These courses, in addition to the primary schooling we receive and the out-of-class interaction we have with other people, should provide ample opportunity to learn, if not master, this language of ours.

I have to admit, I do find it humorous when people try to speak correctly and fail miserably. I had a friend who would say phrases such as, "If you have problems, come see Heather or I."

At the time, I never had the guts to correct her, but now in a public forum I will.

My friend should tell people to see "Heather and me," because if we were to remove Heather, my friend would not say "come see I," she would say "come see me."

I also hear people say, "Heather and me went to the movies."

Once again, without Heather, I doubt "me went to the movies." While you may think I am just an anal grammar prick, I am just tired of hearing Penn Staters sound like morons.

Critics will say students here are highly intelligent.

Yet on a daily basis I am inundated with examples proving otherwise.

For example, take the word "ignorant."

Now those who have actually picked up a dictionary know the word means lacking education or knowledge.

Chances are, if you have made it to college you have picked up a dictionary at least once, which is why I cannot understand for the life of me why people insist on using this word to mean "rude."

I hear phrases such as, "Gosh, he is so ignorant.

How could he even say that to you" all the time, but now that everyone is clear on the true meaning of the word ignorant, the next time I hear this statement, the "he" in question better be showing a lack of knowledge.

As much as I do not like misuse of the word ignorant, there are several things that irk me more. One of them includes our good friend, Mr. Supposedly. This guy just tries to live a normal life like any other word and then we come along and try to hook him up with Ms. Supposebly.

Now this would be great if "supposebly" were actually in the English lexicon. In fact, it is not, and it is a sorry excuse for the pronunciation of Mr. Supposedly.

And there is no convincing me that I am wrong or that this mistake is not that big of a deal; Chandler broke up with a girl for doing the same thing.

The common problems I hear do not always have to do with people making up words or mispronouncing ones that actually exist.

One thing to which I have really taken a notice lately is the overuse of the word "like."

It is one thing to "like" a boy or live "like" royalty, but it is quite another to, "Like, oh my gosh, did you like, hear like, what like he said to her?"

Now let's examine this for a second. Would anyone ever actually write that out on paper? No. So if you wouldn't write it out on paper, why would you say it aloud?

Amy Heckerling's 1995 hit Clueless introduced our generation to this horrible word, and ever since we have not been able to let go of it.

While it may have been trendy to use "like" in between each word back then, now it just makes the speaker look like a fool.

Imagine this: You graduate from Penn State and go out into the real world to a job interview.

The interviewer begins by asking you a few questions about your background and previous experience.

Now, do you honestly think the interviewer will hire a perceivably ditzy chica who used the words "like" and "you know" as often as it rains in State College?

Or will he or she choose a perceivably intelligent young lass who is well-spoken and articulate.

I think the answer is clear.

While this hypothetical situation may be several years off for many students here, it really is never too early to start looking to the future. Old habits have the tendency to die hard, and it will take a while to shake those old ways.

The future will look brighter though, and I am sure your professors and anal retentive English geek friends will appreciate the effort, too.

[arthurus]

I took "very unique" to be an actual error because the phrase is so very common. Use of "hopefully" is almost universal. This exchange is almost the only time that I have ever seen or heard it recognized as an error.

[JimVT]

You're correct, Willie (or as a lot folks even here say; "your correct")

But there is hope...

.....after hearing one "Ya, know" for every third word in interviews with college jocks...I am heartened by the 5 graduating seniors on the University of Vermont basketball team and their coach, Tom Brennan

Taylor Coppenrath...probable NBA draftee...had a GPA of 3.09 IN MATH!!!

T. J. Sorrentine (the Bob Cousy of UVM) is another unsung hero with a 3.0+ GPA.

Germain Mopa Njila speaks three languages.

David Hehn and Alex Jensen contributed not only to the Cats 21-5 overall, 16-1 America East record but a team seniors GPA of 3.41!!!!!

America....get ready for 4 white and 1 black role models.

[JimVT]

My above was to Willie Green....sorry

[eno_]

Howie Carr runs contests on the radio where callers try to keep correct count of the number of times Ted Kennedy says "Uhh" while making some statement to the press.

[F105-D ThunderChief]

""I'm Like Dyke!"

Is this the PC correct version of "See Dick Run" with Lorena Bobbit in the background?

[SupplySider]

I am filled with hope while wishing that my posts were alone in their ability to induce nausea.

[Xenalyte]

I still diagram sentences. It's the best way I can satisfy myself that something is or is not a correct sentence.

[4thInfVet]

One phrase that drives me crazy is "the BOTH of you."

That one could earn you a ruler on the knuckles from the nuns!

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Well, having fought the good fight trying to teach grammar to people who don't care, I no longer bother about it much, and instead, get to sit back and watch the language mutate, which is even more fun.

But, in case anybody is interested, and nobody mentioned it in the countless replies I have passed over, since I got to the thread late, people use ignorant as a synonym for rude, because it has been a cultural reality for centuries, that uneducated people have not been schooled in the language of politeness, and therefore, frequently, ignorant is unintentionally rude.

This is why the word churl, which used to mean peasant, means rude or boring.

This is also why the word villain, which once also meant peasant, means wrongdoer.

Peasant and pagan have similar roots, by the way, meaning country person.

Quaint is interesting, starting off meaning clever, and silly once meant holy.

Fun things, words.

[SupplySider]

I took "very unique" to be an actual error because the phrase is so very common. Use of "hopefully" is almost universal. This exchange is almost the only time that I have ever seen or heard it recognized as an error.

I seem to remember it was about eight or ten years ago when I noticed that "very unique" and "so unique" were becoming fashionable. I hear it from radio and TV anouncers and university professors.

I suppose calling something very unique is seen as making it more special than simply calling it different.

[Xenalyte]

Xena's Guy thinks Bush's speechwriters have some kind of contest going to see who can get him to say "nucular" the most times in one speech.

[familyop]

Those words might be often misapplied, but they are words.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quotes:

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :

Anyway \A"ny*way\, Anyways \A"ny*ways\, adv.
Anywise; at all. --Tennyson. Southey.


Supposable \Sup*pos"a*ble\, a.
Capable of being supposed, or imagined to exist; as, that is
not a supposable case. -- Sup*pos"a*ble*ness, n. --
Sup*pos"a*bly, adv.

[The following is only an excerpt, as the list of definitions are long.]

Incidence \In"ci*dence\, n. [Cf. F. incidence.]
1. A falling on or upon; an incident; an event. [Obs.] --Bp.
Hall.

2. (Physics) The direction in which a body, or a ray of light
or heat, falls on any surface.

In equal incidences there is a considerable
inequality of refractions. --Sir I.
Newton.

[Dementon]

The word has always made me want to become a regurgitator.

There is only one regurgitator, and he is here.

Good luck matching his skills ;)

[VoiceOfBruck]

so good an assumption as

Much gooder!

[SupplySider]

Xena's Guy thinks Bush's speechwriters have some kind of contest going to see who can get him to say "nucular" the most times in one speech.

I am curious what the president is thinking about that. He obviously knows he's mispronouncing it. Maybe he enjoys doing at as a way of sticking it to his critics.

Jimmy Carter, a nuclear physicist, said "nookular", too.

[GodBlessRonaldReagan]

No Latin training at all. This was a great help in teaching us grammar, sentence structure, advanced composition methods, and spelling.

Amen! I didn't fully understand English grammar until I started taking Latin.

[TankerKC]

"If you have problems, come see Heather or I."

I can't tell you a single grammar rule. As far as poor grammar goes, I'm the worst offender. But there are two things that drive me crazy--this is one of them. I think that people say "Heather and I" because it sounds so awkward that it MUST be correct.

BTW, my other peeve is when people say "myself" when "I" or "me" will do.

[BBell]

"Amy Heckerling's 1995 hit Clueless introduced our generation to this horrible word, and ever since we have not been able to let go of it."

This person has obviously never heard of Frank Zappa's Valley Girl. Like gag me with a spoon!

[Xenalyte]

English classes are mandatory through junior high, and through at least the junior year of high school, in the district in which I grew up (Fort Bend, just outside Houston). Only senior English was elective. So six years of English is the minimum FBISD graduates take.