College often not worth time, money

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Thursday, February 24, 2005 | Mike Seate

[Willie Green]

A waitress at one of my favorite Strip District restaurants last week used one of the industry's oldest cliches. She delivered a meal and reminded me that she "really didn't do this" for a living.

Waiting tables, she explained, was simply something she was doing until a well-paying job opened up in the field she studied during six years in college.

While this is rote conversation for wait staff in places like New York and Los Angeles, where everyone with a tray of linguini in their hands is waiting for a slot on NBC's "Fear Factor," it's unusual for Pittsburgh.

Or is it?

The waitress, it turns out, spent all that time and nearly $150,000 of her family's money studying social sciences, but after graduating she became disappointed with the entry-level salary of her chosen field.

"I can make, like, twice what I'd make as a social worker waiting tables," she confided, "so I'm probably going to just stay here."

[Lil'freeper]

Certainly. I was merely commenting on her poor use of the language - something potential employers will take into consideration. If, like, some gum-smacking waitress, like, you know, like goes into an interview and stuff, and like expects to like, have some great job or something, like, you know - handed to her just 'cuz she has a degree, and like all that, like, hello???, I'm all like, that's just not gonna happen. And stuff.

[ServesURight]

She should have studied Health Information. That's what I'm currently doing. I am a Health Information Technology student at a technical college in Green Bay. Huge demand for my field right now.

[StuLongIsland]

The schools and education system should be cited for consumer fraud. The Universities should be no different than ACME Tech where they advertise that you put 19.99 down and pay out via credit cards they will get you a job.

If people don't get jobs, they be meeting Elliot Spitzer (Lib, NY Attorney General). Universities, imply similar and are much more expensive and they work hard to bankrupt the kid so they can pay a thousand Ward Churchills. The High School in cahoots with the educational elites, pass people on to brain washing part 2.

When you are 17 you are not worldly, in most cases, who do you rely on for advice ? Yes these kids can decide if to go to school or join the Army, but the smartest people or most honestly objective people, the school system does not influence them. The objective of the Big City school system is to put more people in the seats for socialist indoctrination, fill seats for more money and pass them on so they look good on file.

[AnAmericanMother]

Hey SOME of us are trying to hold the line!

I still write occasionally for publication, just for fun. I'm an old-fashioned straight historian - lay out the facts, clearly identify my opinions and conclusions drawn from the facts.

[oceanview]

many americans are choosing vocational schools now over college - and its the right choice in many cases, especially with what is happening to tech and other white collar professional jobs with offshoring.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

Successive generations have fallen increasingly in love with the idea of getting a degree. It's now an unthinking given that HS students will go to college. Nevermind that they might have no idea what they want to do there. And now there are legions of unskilled, overeducated Americans wondering what the heck happened.

All is vanity. And get thee to an apprenticeship, old man.

[tm22721]

The value of a good education goes beyond salary metrics.

BUMP

[tfecw]

Should have sent them to a technical school :)

i went to RPI for Comp Scie my required were something in the order of 4 math classes, 8 comp sci classes, 2 general science classes, 2 humanities. Humanities is defined as anything not in your core major. So i could use 2 mechanical engineering classes as my humanities. Then the rest are free electives so i could choose to continue which ever paths i wanted

[Selamat]

Not so fast. Went to UGA on the six-year plan, majored in history and quarter beer. Now I own my own business, with 70-plus employees. REAL liberal arts degrees will teach you plenty about human nature, how to search out facts, and how to apply them with both eyes open. Most importantly, you learn a skill often attributed to engineers and such - how to take 10% of the pieces to a puzzle, and reconstruct the whole picture. The plain truth is that our colleges and universities are overpopulated by 50%. Rampant PC and egalitarianism have conspired to ensure that EVERY parent in the nation is convinced that their baby is college material. No one is willing to let these poor souls in on the fact that they are cognitively somewhere between painfully ordinary and first cousin to a cherry-stone clam. Consequently, the little doofuses are consigned to a lifetime of frustration, cluelessness, and voting Democrat.

[DustyMoment]

The problem with colleges and universities is that much of the curriculum and degree fields lead to limited, or low-paying, or non-existent jobs. For example:

1) Philosophy
2) Women's Studies
3) Social Work
4) Art
5) Liberal Arts
6) Greek Literature (unless one plans to teach)
7) History (unless one plans to teach)
8) Black Studies (unless one plans to teach at the college/university level)

But the real problem is that the education system, itself, has failed to keep pace with the needs of the current world. That explains why so many private and "trade" schools are succeeding where traditional colleges and universities are not.

[Aquinasfan]

The waitress, it turns out, spent all that time and nearly $150,000 of her family's money studying social sciences, but after graduating she became disappointed with the entry-level salary of her chosen field. "I can make, like, twice what I'd make as a social worker waiting tables,"

The bill is far higher. It neglects 6 years of lost wages. Assuming she'd been waitressing for those six years, she's probably lost 6 x $20-30k = $120-180k, for a grand total of $270-330k. I would rather buy my daughter a house.

I'm only considering six Catholic colleges for my daughters. The purpose of their education will not be for job training, but rather as preparation for life.

One local college that I'm looking at, Magdalene College in NH, charges only $8k/year for tuition and $13k for room and board. Sure state colleges are cheaper, but I could sell my daughters into prostitution and make out on the deal. I'm not going to pay the state for that.

College is largely a farce.

[RobRoy]

When I went to computer school in 1982, I had a tough choice. I could go to school for ten months and get a Cobol IMS DB/DC programming job that paid maybe $7 an hour, or I could become a driver for UPS for $10 an hour.

Fortunately, I still went with the former, but it was a harder decision than it should have been. 23 years later, I am a 51 year old with 10 years experience as a programmer, and 11 years experience as a consulting programmer and I now teach tools to programmers.

At the peak, it was a hefty six figures. It's still nothing to thumb your nose at. And one of my new friends is exactly my age and trying to find something, anything to help him financially, for he is struggling. His employer treets him like dirt, his hours are bad and his income is not particularly good, especially for a man who is 51 with a family.

He is a driver for Fed-Ex.


I am not boasting for I firmly believe the Lord was behind all of this. The decisions I have made throughout my carreer have fallen into place even though I didn't have a clue what the outcome would be. Even my current job was a blessing. As with the discovery of the computer school, my discovery of this job was completely an "accident," yet it was what I was looking for for most of my programming career. One resume, one job.

BTW, I majored in pinball in college. Never completed so much as a quarter. Seems the Lord looked past that.

[martin gibson]

dude, did you just say "dominant education modality"?

[coder2]

Hey SOME of us are trying to hold the line!

LOL --- I know that, it's just an uphill battle

That's the way it should be, lay out the facts, identify opinions as such, unfortunately too much opinion being written as fact in the history books/classes

[Conservatrix]

THanks for the encouragement. (In previous post I mentioned I am a voice teacher/classical singer.) I guess the problem is to climb the academic ladder at my age is unusual... to climb it at my age with just a masters has much against me. Usually one has to start by adjuncting with community colleges, etc. This is all very nice but at this stage of my life, I just want to work a 40 hour week and get a regular paycheck. I have been on public assistance for years while I have been working part time, and finishing both my BA and my MM part-time (for the last 6 years!!!!) and BTW I have a 3.9+ GPA so I am no slouch here .... my marriage has crumbled (part of why I have had to do this) but I am hanging on for the sake of these 6 precious lives who do better with us together than apart (been separated twice over the last 3 years)... long story but I at this point don't want piecemeal work, which is basically what I would have to do if I climb the academic ladder... I can't afford that now... this is why I am planning to take the Praxis exams for music certification and try to get a job teaching public school (as I CHOKE) because what else CAN I do as a musician which pays you a regular paycheck every week???? I'd really love to know!!!!!!

[myself6]

While experience is the best tool for getting a job in the IT field, certifications in specific hardware and or software will help you get in the door. A general degree in computer science is meaningless to an IT manager going through resumes.

If your young enough, you should think about joining the military for tech training and experience. The Navy now has an IT rate that might be perfect for you to get the desired experience and training (you might even get professional certifications out of it).

It worked for me...

I joined the Navy after getting married at age 18 (wife was 17 , child on the way). Became an ET (Electronics Tech), went to multiple "c" schools for communication, navigation, radar and computers. The most important thing I learned during those classes was how to troubleshoot complex systems.

Got a lucky break at a duty station and had the opportunity to get my Novell CNE classes and tests paid for by the Navy (professional certification). So I walked out of the Navy with a great certification and the skills to troubleshoot extremely complex systems. BAM! 8 years later, Im doing better than I had ever dreamed possible.

I know this sounds like a commercial but its all fact. The only caveat to keep in mind, is that you will have to work harder than you have ever worked in your life to make it. You will have to motivate yourself to keep achieving the next goal. If someone else has to motivate you, your screwed.

Think about it...

BTW, dont let the other branches fool you, the Navy will give you the best training on equipment and software that is easily transferable to the civilian world. Dont be suckered into anything other than what you want either. If you want the IT rate then dont settle for anything else. NEVER NEVER NEVER let them talk you into being an EM (Electricians Mate) thats just basic electricity. If they try to talk you into BM or BT.... RUN! =)

[Kenton]

There was a time, say, oh, prior to the mid-1970s, when corporations preferred someone with a liberal arts degree, because they were considered to be more well-rounded individuals than people who were just "learning a trade".

My degree in political science hasn't made me a lot of bucks over the years, but I've pursued a career with a Fortune 500 company that had nothing to do with my degree field.

Starting around the early '80s, preferred college majors had swung competely in the direction of specific career training, teaching students how to actually do something to make a living, and it has never gone back. Anybody who expects to make a living in the 2000's should carefully evaluate what sort of market will be available for your services when you graduate. A liberal arts degree in the social sciences will not allow a person to be competitive in today's market.

[AdamSelene235]

A degree in liberal arts teaches a person how to think and study and consider ...................... PS: Just began the new Alexander Hamilton book by Ron Chernow. Hamilton, now there was a hard charger. Got through law school in six-months!

Um, Hamilton never completed law school due to the Revolution. He was allowed to practice law under bill passed specifically to help Revolutionary Vets whose education was interrupted.

P.S. I don't have a liberal arts degree.

[Born Conservative]

$2500 a year to go to PSU? I doubt it.

[Aquinasfan]

He wanted to be a graphic artist, and approached his classes like I approached my engineering ones.

I went to engineering school and am now a graphic artist/illustrator. I only went into engineering for the money. If I had been working my way through college, most likely I would have dropped out and started my own business like I did after I graduated.