Posted on 02/17/2005 4:49:00 PM PST by Renfield
The Sick Man of Europe--Again Islamism and leftism add up to anti-American madness in Turkey.
ANKARA, Turkey--Several years ago I attended an exhibition in Istanbul. The theme was local art from the era of the country's last military coup (1980). But the artists seemed a lot more concerned with the injustices of global capitalism than the fate of Turkish democracy. In fact, to call the works leftist caricatures--many featured fat capitalists with Uncle Sam hats and emaciated workers--would have been an understatement. As one astute local reviewer put it (I quote from memory): "This shows that Turkish artists were willing to abase themselves voluntarily in ways that Soviet artists refused even at the height of Stalin's oppression."
That exhibition came to mind amid all the recent gnashing of teeth in the U.S. over the question of "Who lost Turkey?" Because it shows that a 50-year special relationship, between longtime NATO allies who fought Soviet expansionism together starting in Korea, has long had to weather the ideological hostility and intellectual decadence of much of Istanbul's elite. And at the 2002 election, the increasingly corrupt mainstream parties that had championed Turkish-American ties self-destructed, leaving a vacuum that was filled by the subtle yet insidious Islamism of the Justice and Development (AK) Party. It's this combination of old leftism and new Islamism--much more than any mutual pique over Turkey's refusal to side with us in the Iraq war--that explains the collapse in relations.
--SNIP--
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Darned if that ain't a cheerful thought. Since it's birth, Islam seems to flow into a power vacuuum. I had hoped, until the last few years, that Turkey would maintain it's secular culture. Part of the blame, IMO, is the EU's balking at Turkish admission for "human rights" ( And Greek lobbying) reasons. I'd rather have Turkey "with" us, than against us.
Most of the Turkish military I've worked with (years ago), were first rate, and none-to-fond of Arab "turn-speak".
Mr. Pollack's article is the latest example the convulsions of the American intelligentsia that is becoming painfully aware of the slide of American power in the world. That much is pretty understandable, we are getting used to it. But as a Turkish citizen living in the usa let me make a couple of points to set the record straight on some important issues;
Mr. Pollack concludes his article stating that Turkey is friendless in America and unwelcome in Europe. If Turkey is unwelcome in Europe, can someone explain me how come the leaders of 25 democratic European countries agreed to open membership talks between Turkey and the European Union two months ago? Because father Bush pushed them to do so? Actually the bear hug of Bush had more harm than good in Turkey's effort to become an EU member. As you guys have already seen by now, not everyone likes to be pushed around by the Americans, and your administration has been kindly warned by European leaders to mind its own business. So, your government would do us a real favour by just doing that. We can take care of our own diplomatic ties. Besides, the Europeans are too clever anyway to miss your petty plan to 'dilute' the EU by pushing Turkey in.
As to the other 'favours' forgotten:
'Recognition' of PM Erdogan? Who cares if you recognize a democratically elected government or not? Do you have a choice? (apart from using the Allende method?)
Decades of military assistance? Turkey has been a NATO member with a border with the Soviets; it is natural that it received help from its allies. Not that you guys gave a lot of nice goodies free anyway, it was just de-commissioned US hardware. The real weapons we have, we paid for them in hard currency, we do not need any favours to defend our country, we never did and never will.
Pipeline route for Caspian oil? Yeah, you did that just because you love Turks. No American companies will make any money on that project. It will not contribute to the energy safety of the Western world either (!). Thank you for supporting 'our' pet project.
US administrations fighting US congress? Why does something within the American political system count as a favour for Turkey? If the Congress accepts Armenian allegations, Turkey will take the necessary measures it sees fit, and you bear the political and economic consequences, it is so simple. If the acceptance of those allegations is in line with American interests, why are administrations holding the resolution back? Oh, sorry, out of love of Turks, I forgot.
Ocalan? Ocalan has been captured in 1999, two years after Turkish armed forces broke the back of PKK. All Turkish pleas for help from the US in dealing with the remnants of PKK terrorists since have remained futile until today and it has been well-documented that American officials held talks with PKK leaders in recent years (imagine Turkish intelligence talking to Zarkawi; and how the US would react then).
Shortly, there are no favours, there are never any favours between states, it is all about interests. Turkey has been a faithful ally of the US in the last fifty years. We also supported American forces when they rightly mounted a military operation in Afghanistan. A Turkish general is currently in command of The International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) there. Then comes the attack on Iraq. Nothing to do with terrorism, nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction (US is one of the two countries in history which used WMD against civilians, the other being Iraq before being disarmed). Turkish public opinion is against the invasion, justifiable on all grounds (humanitarian, security-related, political, economic). Any public opinion in any democratic country has the right to be for or against something, right? When the French did not go along with what Bush wanted, the Americans smashed French products on streets and renamed French fries. It is their choice. Any public opinion can also put pressure on its government to act. Free press may bring any subject under discussion as well, and commentators have right to all kinds of opinions (just as Mr. Pollack has to his own). That is how democracy works, right? No. Not in the American model. When you go along with what the Americans want, you are a good guy. If not, you are small-minded, paranoid, marginal. Except, everyone sees who is becoming more marginalised day by day (see the latest BBC survey about American popularity in the world).
To conclude, you guys simply could not swallow the fact that our parliament did not give you what you wanted. Well, come to terms with it: You could not have your way, and there is nothing you can do about it. When our interests coincide, we will continue to work together, when not, we will not. You have to accept the fact that Turkey is a democracy, its government does not control its public opinion, and it has every right to discuss what is happening just over its borders, especially considering the fact that the US comes from the other side of the world and bombs the place. What is dangerous is that this kind of articles creates a wrong impression about the nature of the relationship and further alienate the Turkish public opinion, which Mr. Pollack dares to tell the Turkish government to reverse. For public opinion manipulation these days, on anything from terrorism to budget deficits, from social security to environmental issues, the best reference is the United States, not Turkey.
no surprise that the way of understanding democracy in Turkey did not match the way of you understood. I know you belive only way to spread democracy(?) in the World by military and the whole World is witnessing that you can not spread democracy in anyways. The imperial mess in in Iraq must be upsad you. The war in Iraq was a mistake. You do not rectify a mistake by compounding the error with blaming to a sovereing nation. Mr. Pollock We Turks belived for cultivating a respect for the rule of law and a liberalization of development the political process, and spreading democracy by development and progress which depends upon the intellectual and spirutual traning given to the people who live within its borders not by destroying!!!!!!
I guess this means no more Mr. Nice Guy?
I'm beginning to favor a fortress America. Make ourselves ever stronger in every area...militarily, economically, and especially morally...and let the other nations who choose tyranny live with it. No sense in us trying to civilize and democratize people who want to live in the seventh century. The first thing necessary is to replace our need for oil from the Middle East. Surely we can make their main hold over us obsolete.
What "Armenian allegations" are you referring to?
before blaming Turks for being backward or nonsecular, you have to revisit the role of religion in American politics, the forthcoming battle on abortion rigths, Christian prayers at the schools, the growing effect of evangelist Christians on American politics, lack of minority (black, hispanic, women) representation in your houses, etc. I can continue further. But first fix yourselves before criticizing Turkey or Turkish media. How about starting with your media, in particular Wall Steet Journal, namely R. Pollock?
why, the genocide the turks committed on the armenian people, of course...the civilized turks, or course deny it...
I can't believe he would actually deny that. I'm hoping that it refers to current politics but I couldn't tell by his post.
it sounds like he is saying that if OUR congress acknowledges the genocide, it will have some negative repercussions on our current relationship with the turkish government...
ive always wondered what was up with them denying something so recent and so provable....go figger...
From a web site about the Armenian Genocide....
"..In April 1915 the Ottoman government embarked upon the systematic decimation of its civilian Armenian population. The persecutions continued with varying intensity until 1923 when the Ottoman Empire ceased to exist and was replaced by the Republic of Turkey. The Armenian population of the Ottoman state was reported at about two million in 1915. An estimated one million had perished by 1918, while hundreds of thousands had become homeless and stateless refugees. By 1923 virtually the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey had disappeared....
Read more here:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocide.html
It is a long story but shortly armenians try to form a ground in International arena by claiming that genoside against armenians occured after the formation of Turkey.However, recently new Tukish !!! mass graves (which means its armenian genocide) found in 21 villiges.
Turkey has stayed on the defensive against these allegations until now, but Turkish History Foundation President Professor Yusuf Halacoglu proposes to take action instead of remaining silent. "Turkey should not avoid an open discussion on Armenian claims of genocide." said Halacoglu. He emphasized that many studies had been conducted in the archives of several countries, and mostly in that of the Ottoman Empire, but they have not turned up a single document or record mentioning genocide. Halacoglu asked Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to found a commission which includes social scientists in order to conduct research regarding the so-called genocide claims. Halacoglu says that if Turkey undertakes this study, the opposition will retreat. Halacoglu argues that contrary to the claims of genocide, in fact Armenians killed 519,000 Ottomans and said that names, birthplaces, and the fathers' names of those murdered by Armenians were kept on record in one of the archives.
Professor Halacoglu wants Turkey to take precautionary measures without any anxiety. As this issue will be repeatedly raised in the EU membership negotiations, Turkey should deal with it now. Halacoglu stresses: "Our state should tell the EU that we should handle this issue on a level on which our historians and social scientists can discuss it. We should also establish a commission to report on what we find."
The professor signified that the claims that 1.2 million were killed are inconsistent as according to official documents and records the Armenian population in the Ottoman Empire was only 1.5 million. Halacoglu notes that the Western sources also show the same number and says, "The US archives give the numbers for Armenian migrants who fled to other countries after the Lousanne Treaty in 1925 as 1,299,000 for those who migrated to countries other than Turkey, Greece and Armenia. According to Turkish population censuses, there were 281,000 Armenians living in Turkey. If we add these we already have 1,681,000 Armenians. If we include 60,000 in Greek camps and 25,000 who emigrated to the US, we have a total of 1,760,000. Taking into account population increase this corresponds to the Ottoman Empire's figures. So how, then, can it be claimed that 1,200,000 Armenians were killed."
Professor Halacoglu calculates the loss of life by Armenian emigrants in 1915 as 80,000, who died mostly of diseases and attacks from bandit groups. Pointing out that diseases were spread all around the world at that time, Halacoglu says: "The Ottoman army's lost 400,000 through diseases in the World War I while the US lost 500,000, and Italy 278,000 in 1918. Similarly many European countries lost hundreds of thousands during the World War I." He refers to records in Ottoman archives including warnings to travel in groups for security, and the spending of large amount of money for drugs and food despite the war conditions as clear indicators of Ottoman good will.
'We will open 7 mass graves in 2005'
Professor Halacoglu announced that the Turkish History Institution will open mass graves in spots they have identified based on archive documents to prove that the Armenians committed massacres in Anatolia. He noted that they have already begun excavation studies and reminded that they most recently opened a mass grave of 336 dead in the village Derecik near Kars in northeastern Anatolia. Saying that they have identified about 100 mass graves in 20 different places, Halacoglu says, "We have, for example, identified that Armenians committed genocides in 21 villages in the Igdir region alone. There are also regions of Cukurova, Erzurum, Ardahan, Kars, Bitlis, and Mus. We will conduct excavation studies in 6 or 7 regions because Armenians will make some important claims because of their so-called 90th anniversary. That's why we are trying to unearth what really happened."
That the Armenians killed Turks does not justify an Armenian Genocide by the Turks.
pictures can be deceptive. Whose mass grave it is, who were those people, where did the picture taken. It is easy to show pictures that will influence the minds. Archives are the real sources. Claims which do not have any grounds to abuse politics.
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