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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
It was also September of 2001 ..

Pardon this correction: it was August 2001 you were thinking of.

That is important to remember, since after September 11th, every statement I've read indicates Keyes supports the President in the War on Terror, and has said it time and again. He has also said that it of necessity includes the war in Iraq.

Some conservatives disagree with him on Iraq. It looks to me that Keyes--or the website, at least--is not afraid of debate and some diversity of opinion. It took me a while to figure it out, myself. I must say Keyes' argument persuaded me, and that's a fact.

What do you think about the way he is handling the situation with his daughter?

That is none of my business, and neither am I am in a position to judge. Gossip is best left for the tabloid media to wallow in.

What do you think about his remarks regarding Mary Cheney in retrospect, knowing now that there is no question his own daughter had identified herself as a lesbian when he made them?

Calling homosexuality "selfish hedonism" is exactly correct, before that interview, during the interview, and after the interview.

Months before, in May 2004, Keyes gave the same definition of homosexuality, and he said what he meant by hedonism:

And I use the word "hedonism," by the way--and some people will think that that's pejorative. It's not. The word "hedonism" comes from the Greek hedone, and it means "pleasure."

And I think that it would be kind of absurd on the face of it for people who advocate same-sex relationships to turn to us and say that those relationships are not about pleasure--the point being that, at one level, that's all they can be about.

The relationship between man and woman can be incidentally about pleasure, but essentially about procreation and family, and things that in fact transcend the immediate gratification of the parties involved. The same-sex relationship is haunted by no such necessities, no such obligations. It is essentially about fulfillment of the passions, the needs, the dreams, the ambitions, the this or that. You can put up any words you want, but at the end of the day, it's just the people that are there. It's about them!

It is not about the future! It is not about the society! It is not about that which at any given moment can transcend the pleasure of the individuals! It's not about that.

Now, wait. I'm walking through all of this, y'all, because I think it's important to remember, though. And that's why I call it the view of sexuality based on hedonism and self-gratification, but you and I both know that this understanding of human sexuality is not confined to same-sex couples.

He says he means "hedonism" as a descriptive, not derogatory term. Then he says selfish hedonism is not confined to homosexuality:
Whole industries, both in the entertainment media and in the production of all kinds of contraceptive devices and pills and this and that--all based upon, what? All based upon the pursuit of this form of sexual fulfillment, to free oneself from the shadow of procreation, so that it will no longer haunt the relationship, no longer burden the relationship, no longer be there as something which calls one away from the vocation of self-gratification toward a vocation that requires responsibility and self-sacrifice.

(Alan Keyes, Rally in defense of marriage, May 14, 2004 http://renewamerica.us/archives/speeches/04_05_14boston.htm)

I listened to that speech during the Massachusetts fiasco. The mainstream media either chose to ignore this speech or failed to do its research.
572 posted on 02/15/2005 12:29:18 AM PST by Gelato
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To: Gelato
Calling homosexuality "selfish hedonism" is exactly correct, before that interview, during the interview, and after the interview.

You missed my point. Don't you find it odd that he thought it appropriate to personalize his argument by agreeing to apply his description to Mary Cheney, when it is clear now that he had a lesbian daughter of his own?

My feeling, particularly in light of the fact that his own daughter is a lesbian (something he was apparently unwilling to make public at the time of his interview), is that he should have said something like, "I don't see why you need to personalize it - there are numerous people engaged in that lifestyle - but I stand by my position on the topic."

Not, [Is Mary Cheney a selfish hedonist?] - "Well DUH! Yes, of course she is!"

573 posted on 02/15/2005 12:35:33 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Humina, humina, humina...)
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